NB8B cranks but not starting

[aviper4u]

Ok so I got it running

Tried to post yesterday though the site seems to be intermittently down with a counter error...

[aviper4u]

So I was working solo yesterday so I took videos of voltages with and without the jump starter
Battery 12.5V & 10.7V
Jump starter 12.5 & 12.5 noticibly faster cranking

No starting though

So then I started opening the back shelf and testing the fuel pump connector it was getting 12V at cranking like it should.
Then I checked continuity and all good and put a AC adaptor which didn't work so I tried the jump starter which did make the fuel pump make noise which then the car started instantly.

So I want to ask if a stock 2000 NB8B should prime the fuel pump on ignition reds/run position or only work when starting/running.

So ATM I'm leaning towards intermittent fuse/relay issue, thoughts?

[greenMachine]

My 2004 (SE) definitely does prime the fuel pump on the 'run' - ie turning the ignition on, past 'acc', to the setting prior to activating the starter motor. It runs for a few seconds then stops. My understanding that is controlled from the ECU, to ensure the lines/rail are pressurised for the injectors. IIRC my 98 NB8A did the same.

Presume that when it started, it ran happily enough?

Yes, sounds like relay, could be a fuse, replace the lot, including the main engine relay (which is a known troublespot). Keep an eye out for anything that looks/suggests 'loose connection', corroded contacts, etc.

Glad to hear progress is happening!!

[aviper4u]

Presume that when it started, it ran happily enough?

Yea it ran well though as I ran through all the gears etc though the ABS dash light came on as the car is on stands and the wheels speed sensor might error as the front wheels aren't spinning like the rears?

When I have time again I want to short the Fuel pump to ground pins in the diagnosis box in the engine bay to test if bypassing the fuse/relay helps as when it was running I saw the fuel gauge stop showing and I jiggled the fuel pump four pin connector which made is show again so something is a miss though I am not sure exactly.

Not registering anytime soon so I'm not concerned though I'll need a few parts changed in the future.

Thanks all!!!

[93_Clubman]

opening the back shelf and testing the fuel pump connector ... tried the jump starter which did make the fuel pump make noise which then the car started instantly.

when it was running I saw the fuel gauge stop showing and I jiggled the fuel pump four pin connector which made it show again so something is a miss

Given above, perhaps worth keeping in mind the black wire issue mentioned in my earlier post as gauge & pump can be affected by it - it's an in-tank degraded wiring connector, which the direct connection of the battery jump starter may have overcome:

Ref fuel pump - doubt it's this as seemingly more frequent on the NA, but fuel pump wiring loom & connectors at the inside top of the fuel tank can be an issue as this is where the so called black wire problem manifests itself. Following details the issue as well as MB's observation about ultrafine metallic power at the top of his fuel pump: viewtopic.php?f=55&t=46425

As pic links in my original post above are US, the following shows the fuel pump loom connector, which plugs into the inside top of the tank, which is where black-wire issue occurs: viewtopic.php?style=3&f=55&t=70835

[aviper4u]

So a super late reply here though my car is still in storage and after a long time of no running has this same issue though if started more regularly no issues.

So I did alot more troubleshooting this time though I'm very confused...

- check for voltage at pump connector and nothing
- check for voltage at fuel pump relay connector all good
- bypass fuel pump relay now have voltage at pump connector but no starting and no fuel pump noise on reds though apparently on reds no fuel pump noise
- connect battery jump starter on to fuel pump and it works, I leave on for about ten seconds then stop and connect back
- try and start and all good and I can hear the fuel pump whilst running

So my confusion is if all the voltage issue is the fuel pump relay why does it all work after the fuel pump is manually triggered? Also if the fuel pump on nb8bs does not work unless cranking or running why didn't it pump fuel whilst cranking?

Anyways previously it was mentioned that it was the black fuel pump wire connector issue though if this is the case why does it always work if started regularly?

So if the fuel pump only works when running and no fuel pump on reds or cranking how does the fuel get primed prior to starting or cranking without running?

Thanks all and sorry for my long essay though I'm just too old to be squeezing under the steering wheel column anymore heheeh

[93_Clubman]

Don't have any definitive answers for you, however the following are my thoughts.

- check for voltage at pump connector and nothing
- check for voltage at fuel pump relay connector all good
- bypass fuel pump relay now have voltage at pump connector but no starting and no fuel pump noise on reds though apparently on reds no fuel pump noise
- connect battery jump starter on to fuel pump and it works, I leave on for about ten seconds then stop and connect back
- try and start and all good and I can hear the fuel pump whilst running

So my confusion is if all the voltage issue is the fuel pump relay why does it all work after the fuel pump is manually triggered?

It's not clear from your post if you have you checked the connectors inside the fuel tank and actually removed the fuel pump assembly from the tank?

In addition to the so called black wire issue I recall Manga Blue checking his fuel pump one day to find a build-up of metal filings in the valley where the fuel pump connectors are located, which he thought could cause an issue.

But is it the fuel pump relay? The in-tank connectors appear to become coated with a black substance that builds up over time, so it may be that regular starting and running overcomes the poor connectivity.

Also if the fuel pump on nb8bs does not work unless cranking or running why didn't it pump fuel whilst cranking?

Ref NB8B fuel pump operation - don't know - can say that I can't hear my NA8 fuel pump when I turn on the ignition or crank the starter motor.

Anyways previously it was mentioned that it was the black fuel pump wire connector issue though if this is the case why does it always work if started regularly?

It was mentioned it might be the black wire issue. This may occur as the in-tank connectors appear to become coated with a black substance, which may be more conductive with regular starting.

So if the fuel pump only works when running and no fuel pump on reds or cranking how does the fuel get primed prior to starting or cranking without running?

Is this a safe assumption? May be not.

[bruce]

Overthinking it.
Open up the tank and take a look at the pump and wiring. Maybe replace the pump, I think it would be cheap.

[93_Clubman]

So my confusion is if all the voltage issue is the fuel pump relay why does it all work after the fuel pump is manually triggered?

NB8B fuel pump relays did cause some owners issues - recall some owners of modified NB8Bs having to change to upgraded fuel pump relays, which isn't to say some standard NB8Bs weren't also affected. davekmoore was one such owner and there was a thread in which the fuel pump relay was mentioned in a discussion between davekmoore and another modified NB8B owner.

[aviper4u]

Thanks for everyone's wisdom!!!

Looks like I need to get into the tank though I just have no time right now as in the middle of renos which is why I had to move my shed dweller in the first place.

I need to checkout more pics of this black wire issue so I have some expertise when I open up the tank.

Thanks again

[StanTheMan]

why is it so complicated ?
check fuse, or just change it with another in the box
then check realy if it clicks ,
unplug fuel pump & reconnect it. make sure the plug is connecting.
if fuse & Relay check out, give your pump a whack with a rubber mallet just incase it is stuck. Take fuel pump out . connect directly to battery to test. should take you less than 20 min. unless you have a roll bar installed. you will need to make the wires for it

if your fuel pump works directly connected to the battery work backwards.
Ive had issues with the connector in the past. you can get new ones from Ballenger Motorsport. Check Mania as well
https://www.bmotorsports.com/shop/product_info.php/products_id/4374

occasionally the Fuel Relay under the dash will click but its still toast. You can jump the relay. check out You tubes for the hotwire of the Relay

Ive had E85 in a tank for over 2 years . it still started. Bad fuel may quite well be a myth

[Craig]

why is it so complicated ?

It isn't just do this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cY1YndLmbXQ