The Red Green Machine
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- greenMachine
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Re: The Red Green Machine
After a longer than expected break, I am getting back into the SE. I extended my visit to the Sydney grandie to drop in at Heasmans and deliver the rear PSS9s for new seals. They are also going to see what they can find for dust covers, but for now the Inertia Lab ones are the front runners.
In the meantime I will restart work on getting the dash back in. The soft top has chosen this time to basically disintegrate, so the decision is whether to buy a new one, or put that money towards a new turbo and leave the hardtop on permanently. Decisions, decisions ...
In the meantime I will restart work on getting the dash back in. The soft top has chosen this time to basically disintegrate, so the decision is whether to buy a new one, or put that money towards a new turbo and leave the hardtop on permanently. Decisions, decisions ...
I never met a horsepower I didn't like (thanks bwob)
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Re: The Red Green Machine
Sell the HT for $3k, buy new softtop skin and turbo with the proceeds!
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Re: The Red Green Machine
ManiacLachy wrote:Sell the HT for $3k, buy new softtop skin and turbo with the proceeds!
Don't think the proceeds will go quite that far lachie!!
After a false start, and distraction by model kit sales, got back into the garage this weekend. I have all the hvac out, and nearly completed re-sealing all the moving do-hickies, just need to get some narrow sealing stuff for one or two of the surfaces, that will be tomorrow's job, then I can get on with reinstalling the three boxes and hooking everything up.
One interesting development is that I have found another heater core! That sent me hurrying to check that I had not re-installed the old one, but no, it's definitely a new one in the heater box. So where did this one come from? It looks new, found it in a cardboard box like the other one came in (might be the same box?), ... I know the first one took over three weeks to get here, did they send another believing the first was lost in transit? Did I shell out for another, thinking the first was never going to arrive? Unfortunately the answer seems lost in time, so if anyone needs an NB heater core, I know where you can get one cheap ...
I never met a horsepower I didn't like (thanks bwob)
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Re: The Red Green Machine
greenMachine wrote:ManiacLachy wrote:Sell the HT for $3k, buy new softtop skin and turbo with the proceeds!
Don't think the proceeds will go quite that far lachie!!
That's my man-math for you! Have money, spend money+
Ok, so sell HT, and heater core - then turbo!
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Re: The Red Green Machine
Good day today.
Got all three boxes back in the car (blower, aircon and heater), all ready for the dash to go back in. I'm preparing a more detailed writeup, it is not all smooth sailing, at least it wasn't for me. I'm hoping the dash will be relatively straightforward, and that all the controls and wiring play nicely. I'm a bit under the hammer as rego is looming ...
Got all three boxes back in the car (blower, aircon and heater), all ready for the dash to go back in. I'm preparing a more detailed writeup, it is not all smooth sailing, at least it wasn't for me. I'm hoping the dash will be relatively straightforward, and that all the controls and wiring play nicely. I'm a bit under the hammer as rego is looming ...
I never met a horsepower I didn't like (thanks bwob)
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Re: The Red Green Machine
Replacing the heater core has been a pretty major undertaking, and with the NBs being between 17 and 24 years old those remaining ones will have either had the job done, or will soon have to have the job done. I have pulled out a number of NB dasghes, but never with a view to putting them back in, so I never took a lot of notice how they were put together. As a result I learned a lot from this exercise, and hopefully I can make your heater replacement faster and smoother than mine. While I found resources on removing the dash, replacing the heater core was another matter.
Lessons learned
1. Take lots of photos as you go.
2. Remove the seats, drivers at minimum, but if you are pulling the dash remove both - lots of room, easy access. I also removed the steering wheel - that requires removing the bomb. Disconnect the battery before working on the bomb - if that goes off it will kill or maim you. Open the softtop/remove the hardtop, pretty obvious really. Pulling the dash requires removing ALL the trim around the windscreen. I just googled removing the dash, there are a number of guides for this.
3. Bag all the nuts and bolts, I used ziplok snack bags mainly, with some larger ones for bigger bits (every garage should have a full range of these on tap - they are so handy and save so much grief later on). LABEL THE BAGS! I ripped pages from a small spiral notebook, but anything will do, just label them. The advantage of the ziplok bags is that you just put the description in the bag and seal it in, no worry about smudged writing or the like trying to write on the bag itself.
4. Yes you can (apparently, the internet says so) take the core out without pulling the dash and ripping out all the hvac. However, I had great difficulty removing the core from the heater box, even though it was out of the car and I had full freedom of movement. The reason was that the foam used to seal the gaps around the core had bonded to both the core and the plastic of the heater box, and it required a major effort to break that bond. It could not have been done in position inside the car. YMMV, but be prepared to pull the heater box if the core does not want to coooperate. Just be careful with the plastic heater box, that stuff is getting old, and is not as strong as when it left the factory, the amount of force I had to use must have gone close to breaking the plastic but I got away with it.
5. I pulled all three boxes - heater, aircon, blower just so I could figure out how to get the heater and aircon to mate up. I could have left the blower alone, but you can benefit from my hard won knowledge
Replacing the core
The only tricky bit here is attaching the piping. The NBs use 'o' rings and finnicky little clamps to join the two pipes to the heater core. The instructions say assemble dry, I used some red silicone - too much, wrong place. If you want to use silicone, maybe just wet the 'o' ring with silicone, put the 'o' ring on the pipe, smear a LITTLE on the 'o' ring, then assemble. Note the orientation of the clamps in the photo.
Check that the pipes sit snugly in the clamps and on their housings on the side and rear of the heater box. If they are not sitting like they left the factory (ie there are gaps) you have done it wrong - don't ask me how I know this but see the photos for how they sit.
I took mine to the radiator place where I got the replacement core, where they fixed my overuse of silicone, and pressure tested the assembled heater (latter was a well spent $20 for peace of mind). You can get around all this by buying an NA heater, which is copper and comes with the pipes attached.
Cleaning the joiners
Good bloody luck with that. Except that all the old foam/felt will be cactus, and has to be replaced. Paint scraper FTW, with your selection of jungle juices to remove the old adhesive. This is the worst part of the whole process.
The joiners
Easy one first - blower to aircon. 25mm felt strip might have been a bit wide, 15mm might be better and make it easier to get the bolt in. I replaced the short bolt with a longer one, but my felt was probably too bulky, get the shortest nap you can. Note, if you have taken all three out, the blower is the first one back in.
The heater box to aircon join was confusing. It seems designed for the aircon to be the last of the three to be installed - the mating aircon fitting slides into place with the joiner already installed on the heater box. I could not see how you could assemble them in order of blower first, then aircon, then heater ( the corollary is that I can't see how just removing the heater is viable, as getting the heater back in place does not seem possible even if you can get it out in the first place). Even doing it this way I couldn't see how the felt would seal the join, the gaps were too big. I ended up using felt strips everywhere except as shown in the photo. This was where the biggest gap was, and the felt was not going to cut it. So I put the rubber strip inside the join, so that the aircon fitting slid in beside the strip of rubber. It looks like there may be a restriction of the airflow, but in reality it just reduces to the size of the heater box air entry a little earlier.
The heater side of the joiner
The rubber strips sealing the gap between the aircon and the joiner
Felt (3mx25mm)
Rubber strip
At this point I was ready to start putting the dash in. That will be the subject of a separate post.
Lessons learned
1. Take lots of photos as you go.
2. Remove the seats, drivers at minimum, but if you are pulling the dash remove both - lots of room, easy access. I also removed the steering wheel - that requires removing the bomb. Disconnect the battery before working on the bomb - if that goes off it will kill or maim you. Open the softtop/remove the hardtop, pretty obvious really. Pulling the dash requires removing ALL the trim around the windscreen. I just googled removing the dash, there are a number of guides for this.
3. Bag all the nuts and bolts, I used ziplok snack bags mainly, with some larger ones for bigger bits (every garage should have a full range of these on tap - they are so handy and save so much grief later on). LABEL THE BAGS! I ripped pages from a small spiral notebook, but anything will do, just label them. The advantage of the ziplok bags is that you just put the description in the bag and seal it in, no worry about smudged writing or the like trying to write on the bag itself.
4. Yes you can (apparently, the internet says so) take the core out without pulling the dash and ripping out all the hvac. However, I had great difficulty removing the core from the heater box, even though it was out of the car and I had full freedom of movement. The reason was that the foam used to seal the gaps around the core had bonded to both the core and the plastic of the heater box, and it required a major effort to break that bond. It could not have been done in position inside the car. YMMV, but be prepared to pull the heater box if the core does not want to coooperate. Just be careful with the plastic heater box, that stuff is getting old, and is not as strong as when it left the factory, the amount of force I had to use must have gone close to breaking the plastic but I got away with it.
5. I pulled all three boxes - heater, aircon, blower just so I could figure out how to get the heater and aircon to mate up. I could have left the blower alone, but you can benefit from my hard won knowledge
Replacing the core
The only tricky bit here is attaching the piping. The NBs use 'o' rings and finnicky little clamps to join the two pipes to the heater core. The instructions say assemble dry, I used some red silicone - too much, wrong place. If you want to use silicone, maybe just wet the 'o' ring with silicone, put the 'o' ring on the pipe, smear a LITTLE on the 'o' ring, then assemble. Note the orientation of the clamps in the photo.
Check that the pipes sit snugly in the clamps and on their housings on the side and rear of the heater box. If they are not sitting like they left the factory (ie there are gaps) you have done it wrong - don't ask me how I know this but see the photos for how they sit.
I took mine to the radiator place where I got the replacement core, where they fixed my overuse of silicone, and pressure tested the assembled heater (latter was a well spent $20 for peace of mind). You can get around all this by buying an NA heater, which is copper and comes with the pipes attached.
Cleaning the joiners
Good bloody luck with that. Except that all the old foam/felt will be cactus, and has to be replaced. Paint scraper FTW, with your selection of jungle juices to remove the old adhesive. This is the worst part of the whole process.
The joiners
Easy one first - blower to aircon. 25mm felt strip might have been a bit wide, 15mm might be better and make it easier to get the bolt in. I replaced the short bolt with a longer one, but my felt was probably too bulky, get the shortest nap you can. Note, if you have taken all three out, the blower is the first one back in.
The heater box to aircon join was confusing. It seems designed for the aircon to be the last of the three to be installed - the mating aircon fitting slides into place with the joiner already installed on the heater box. I could not see how you could assemble them in order of blower first, then aircon, then heater ( the corollary is that I can't see how just removing the heater is viable, as getting the heater back in place does not seem possible even if you can get it out in the first place). Even doing it this way I couldn't see how the felt would seal the join, the gaps were too big. I ended up using felt strips everywhere except as shown in the photo. This was where the biggest gap was, and the felt was not going to cut it. So I put the rubber strip inside the join, so that the aircon fitting slid in beside the strip of rubber. It looks like there may be a restriction of the airflow, but in reality it just reduces to the size of the heater box air entry a little earlier.
The heater side of the joiner
The rubber strips sealing the gap between the aircon and the joiner
Felt (3mx25mm)
Rubber strip
At this point I was ready to start putting the dash in. That will be the subject of a separate post.
I never met a horsepower I didn't like (thanks bwob)
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NB SE - gone to the dark side (and loving it )
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Re: The Red Green Machine
Well the dash is back in, more or less.
It all went pretty smoothly. The fiddly centre bolt up at the bottom of the windscreen followed the script closely. That one, and the two nuts on the base of the steering column were the main trouble spots. I rejoined all the hvac and electrical connections before attempting to bolt the dash in place, figuring if I had to take it out again it would simplify things. Currently the only incomplete connection is one of the plugs for the bomb, the one that plugs into the clock spring - I figured as it was getting dark and cold, I would leave that one and attack it in the morning. I have also left the glovebox and radio for last. Likewise the centre console.
Pro tip #1 - for the centre bolt, replace it with one that has the unthreaded lead-in, that went in no trouble. The same would help with the four big bolts holding the base of the dash to the tabs on the tunnel. I ended up using a long pry bar to push the base of the dash forward to get the holes to align properly.
Pro tip #2 - a bit of blu tack to hold the nuts for the base of the steering column in the socket will help immensely, as will using a 1/4 socket set with a long extension, as the space around the pedals is quite limited.
Pro tip #3 - don't forget to plug the drain pipe into the aircon box.
The program tomorrow will be: Connect the final electrical plug; Install the cluster, connect its three plugs; Install gear lever, and rubber boot; Install the steering wheel, and the bomb; Connect the heater coolant lines, and the aircon piping, fill with coolant; and Reinstall and connect battery.
Almost there!
It all went pretty smoothly. The fiddly centre bolt up at the bottom of the windscreen followed the script closely. That one, and the two nuts on the base of the steering column were the main trouble spots. I rejoined all the hvac and electrical connections before attempting to bolt the dash in place, figuring if I had to take it out again it would simplify things. Currently the only incomplete connection is one of the plugs for the bomb, the one that plugs into the clock spring - I figured as it was getting dark and cold, I would leave that one and attack it in the morning. I have also left the glovebox and radio for last. Likewise the centre console.
Pro tip #1 - for the centre bolt, replace it with one that has the unthreaded lead-in, that went in no trouble. The same would help with the four big bolts holding the base of the dash to the tabs on the tunnel. I ended up using a long pry bar to push the base of the dash forward to get the holes to align properly.
Pro tip #2 - a bit of blu tack to hold the nuts for the base of the steering column in the socket will help immensely, as will using a 1/4 socket set with a long extension, as the space around the pedals is quite limited.
Pro tip #3 - don't forget to plug the drain pipe into the aircon box.
The program tomorrow will be: Connect the final electrical plug; Install the cluster, connect its three plugs; Install gear lever, and rubber boot; Install the steering wheel, and the bomb; Connect the heater coolant lines, and the aircon piping, fill with coolant; and Reinstall and connect battery.
Almost there!
I never met a horsepower I didn't like (thanks bwob)
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Re: The Red Green Machine
Comprehensive run down mate, (great fundamental tip with the photo and labels too for a job like this). Considering how I enjoy the creature comfort’s its good to know what it takes to get this inevitable fix done, (though I say I won’t be as confident having a crack at it myself without help!)
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Re: The Red Green Machine
Thanks Daffy! More to come, rear shocks related.
For the benefit of anyone with a LHD car that comes here looking for info on HVAC, this thread shows the differences between LHD and RHD. They are probably mostly cosmetic, affecting the joiners between the three major components.
For the benefit of anyone with a LHD car that comes here looking for info on HVAC, this thread shows the differences between LHD and RHD. They are probably mostly cosmetic, affecting the joiners between the three major components.
I never met a horsepower I didn't like (thanks bwob)
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Take 2!
I prepared a post updating the thread for some issues I have experienced, but I lost it!
They say troubles come in threes, so I am hoping I have now cleared that hurdle and life, or motoring life anyway, will be smooth sailing from here
Trouble #1
Putting in the shocks (just had new seals put in, one was leaking), and one of the LCAs would not move - the tripod had come out of the inner housing, and there must have been a bit of movement and the alignment of the three rollers and their housing was off. Juggling the two pieces while the rubber boot was secured proved unsuccessful, partly because of the tension generated by the stretched boot, partly because obviously I couldn't see exactly what I was trying to align. Cue a messy job of taking the dust boot off, but realigning the two pieces was easy when you can see both! No photos, too messy to use the phone. The photo below shows the reassembled joint, the circle is the two tabs, and the arrow shows the over-centre lever tensioning the SS band. Those two tabs I left as the 'lever' came out, SS being notoriously fragile when bent back and forth, so I fed it back in using pliers, and then hammered the tabs down again.
Trouble #2
Got the shocks out of the carton they were shipped in, and set about re-setting the ride height. One, no problem, it was already very close to where it needed to be. The other refused to move upwards, giving every appearance of binding and stripping the thread, well down from where it needed to be. Looks like someone got so far, the thread started to tighten up, and they decided to leave it for the customer to fix. That will go back to Heaseman's to fix on their dime. But delay for me.
Trouble #3
Having fixed the driveshaft, the next step was to install the 'good' shock. Oops! - stripped the thread in the LCA captive nut, and nothing I can do will get the bolt out that is attaching the shock to the LCA. Took the LCA down to a local engineering shop, and today they tell me the shock is out of the LCA, so that is good, now I have to find a NB RR LCA - I have one rear LCA, but it is a LR (of course!). Turns out I have LCAs for three corners, but not the one I need. I'll have to get the poly/bronze bushes out of the old one and into the new to be fully mobile, but in the short term I have a NA RR LCA which can go in while that is happening.
Trouble #4?
Dismantling the RR corner to get the hub and axle off to fix the tripod joint, I noticed that the ABS lead was under some strain - these are notoriously fragile, so I will be watching the ABS light in the cluster very closely on first start-up to see if there is a problem. I have spare ABS sensors, having learnt from a previous experience where a sensor went AWOL, but again not a RR. Sigh. Maybe it won't be needed, but with my current form I am not counting on it.
The car is going to run out of rego before all this is fixed, which is a manageable problem that I was hoping to avoid.
They say troubles come in threes, so I am hoping I have now cleared that hurdle and life, or motoring life anyway, will be smooth sailing from here
Trouble #1
Putting in the shocks (just had new seals put in, one was leaking), and one of the LCAs would not move - the tripod had come out of the inner housing, and there must have been a bit of movement and the alignment of the three rollers and their housing was off. Juggling the two pieces while the rubber boot was secured proved unsuccessful, partly because of the tension generated by the stretched boot, partly because obviously I couldn't see exactly what I was trying to align. Cue a messy job of taking the dust boot off, but realigning the two pieces was easy when you can see both! No photos, too messy to use the phone. The photo below shows the reassembled joint, the circle is the two tabs, and the arrow shows the over-centre lever tensioning the SS band. Those two tabs I left as the 'lever' came out, SS being notoriously fragile when bent back and forth, so I fed it back in using pliers, and then hammered the tabs down again.
Trouble #2
Got the shocks out of the carton they were shipped in, and set about re-setting the ride height. One, no problem, it was already very close to where it needed to be. The other refused to move upwards, giving every appearance of binding and stripping the thread, well down from where it needed to be. Looks like someone got so far, the thread started to tighten up, and they decided to leave it for the customer to fix. That will go back to Heaseman's to fix on their dime. But delay for me.
Trouble #3
Having fixed the driveshaft, the next step was to install the 'good' shock. Oops! - stripped the thread in the LCA captive nut, and nothing I can do will get the bolt out that is attaching the shock to the LCA. Took the LCA down to a local engineering shop, and today they tell me the shock is out of the LCA, so that is good, now I have to find a NB RR LCA - I have one rear LCA, but it is a LR (of course!). Turns out I have LCAs for three corners, but not the one I need. I'll have to get the poly/bronze bushes out of the old one and into the new to be fully mobile, but in the short term I have a NA RR LCA which can go in while that is happening.
Trouble #4?
Dismantling the RR corner to get the hub and axle off to fix the tripod joint, I noticed that the ABS lead was under some strain - these are notoriously fragile, so I will be watching the ABS light in the cluster very closely on first start-up to see if there is a problem. I have spare ABS sensors, having learnt from a previous experience where a sensor went AWOL, but again not a RR. Sigh. Maybe it won't be needed, but with my current form I am not counting on it.
The car is going to run out of rego before all this is fixed, which is a manageable problem that I was hoping to avoid.
I never met a horsepower I didn't like (thanks bwob)
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Re: The Red Green Machine
Well, if you were wondering (as I was) how anyone could cross-thread a nut when the nut is captive and the bolt has to be passed through a locating hole, wonder no more!
It was not cross threaded, the locating cage for the nut failed, leaving the nut to spin. When I went to collect the LCA and the shock, the nut had been welded onto the arm, so no new arm, no transferring of bushes to a new arm, just bolt it all back up! The get-out-of-jail card cost me $25, cheap at twice the price.
The arm is in, the axle/hub is in, the LCA and UCA are all assembled, the brake bracket is back on and the calliper in place, just need to find my high temperature grease for the slider pins, one is quite dry. The other shock is back out, ready for the return to Heaseman's to clean up the binding thread. Having dodged one damaged thread bullet, I don't want to do the same on an alloy shock body which may not be so amenable to a cheap and quick fix.
Tomorrow, grease the slider pin, and get the car ready to start.
It was not cross threaded, the locating cage for the nut failed, leaving the nut to spin. When I went to collect the LCA and the shock, the nut had been welded onto the arm, so no new arm, no transferring of bushes to a new arm, just bolt it all back up! The get-out-of-jail card cost me $25, cheap at twice the price.
The arm is in, the axle/hub is in, the LCA and UCA are all assembled, the brake bracket is back on and the calliper in place, just need to find my high temperature grease for the slider pins, one is quite dry. The other shock is back out, ready for the return to Heaseman's to clean up the binding thread. Having dodged one damaged thread bullet, I don't want to do the same on an alloy shock body which may not be so amenable to a cheap and quick fix.
Tomorrow, grease the slider pin, and get the car ready to start.
I never met a horsepower I didn't like (thanks bwob)
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Re: The Red Green Machine
Out of curiosity, what grease do you use, and does it last well with track work?
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Re: The Red Green Machine
It Lives!
Since my last post I regreased the slider pin, reconnected the handbrake, double-checked all the nuts and bolts were torqued up on that corner but left the ABS sensor hanging. The first test for that will be when the ignition is switched on, when the ABS cycles through its self-test, and if all is well the ABS light on the dash goes out. If the light goes out, it may be that the lead has not been damaged by the stretching it endured, but the real test will come when the car is rolling, and the sensor is sending impulses to the ABS electronics - if there is a mismatch in the counts between different wheels, the light will illuminate and the first thing will be to find a replacement sensor.
Next step re-connect the battery, oops, I did not check what had been switched on as I was working - wipers, fan, hazard flasher, you name it, it was all on!! Well at least the battery has some charge, couldn't resist the temptation, ignition on, ABS light goes out (YAY!!!), keep rolling that dice, hit the starter, and the engine fired and catches!!!! I immediately shut it down, as it has no coolant, but that had proved that the beast lives!! Now I need to fill the coolant, but the RR ABS sensor (the suspect one) is back on the upright. Seats next, and HT back on. Next week a quick trip to Heasmans for the shock, and it is nearly job done!!
Before the HT goes back on I think I will get the softtop off, it is totally unusable and only adding weight to the car. That can be the first step in getting a replacement.
I never met a horsepower I didn't like (thanks bwob)
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Re: The Red Green Machine
Ned Loh wrote:Out of curiosity, what grease do you use, and does it last well with track work?
That is a very good question Ned. I used some lithium grease, I thought I had some high temperature grease but no sign of it where it should be.
The short answer is that I doubt this stuff is up for serious track work, certainly not on the fronts - this is a rear I am talking about. I will have to watch it closely, and I might just see what I can find that will live at seriously high temperatures, I am going to need it sooner or later.
Anyone have any recommendations?
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Re: The Red Green Machine
Making good progress!
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