Lachstock and Four Turbo Charged Cylinders ['04 NB SE]

Chat to do with your MX5/Miata/Eunos Garage Ride(s).

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Re: Lachstock and Four Turbo Charged Cylinders ['04 NB SE]

Postby StanTheMan » Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:58 pm

ManiacLachy wrote:Every professional in Queensland thinks Megasquirt is the devil. I am the tuna.

(I am disappointed I couldn't find an appropriate "I am the tuna" meme - I felt sure there would be one)

Ive got absolutely no clue what that's is supposed to mean :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Lachstock and Four Turbo Charged Cylinders ['04 NB SE]

Postby ManiacLachy » Tue Jun 22, 2021 3:05 pm

"Tuna" sounds like "tuner" :wink:

"I am the tuna" = I am the person tuning my vehicle. I will not be touching the spark map however, Dann did that on the dyno and should be good as is. I'll use Virtual Dyno to get an idea of my power and torque figures for dialing boost control.

Eventually I hope to get on a dyno at AutoWorks on the south side of Brisbane, they're starting to get in to MegaSquirt. One of their employee's is an MX-5 owner and active on the FaceBook group so is encouraging them to take it on. But I want to have things in the ball park before going to them

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Re: Lachstock and Four Turbo Charged Cylinders ['04 NB SE]

Postby bruce » Tue Jun 22, 2021 3:07 pm

It's simple, Lachy thinks he's a big fish (ya gotta open that garage door when tuning cars)!

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Re: Lachstock and Four Turbo Charged Cylinders ['04 NB SE]

Postby PaulF » Wed Jun 23, 2021 8:59 am

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Re: Lachstock and Four Turbo Charged Cylinders ['04 NB SE]

Postby ManiacLachy » Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:56 am

Oh, and happy 7 year MX5-iversary to me!

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Re: Lachstock and Four Turbo Charged Cylinders ['04 NB SE]

Postby Lokiel » Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:23 pm

bruce wrote:It's simple, Lachy thinks he's a big fish (ya gotta open that garage door when tuning cars)!


This works well for me:
Image
Image

Since you'll probably be tuning under the house, get a hose long enough to ensure that you can vent downwind.

PS: Not far off fully testing V2 of the sensor box + OLED gauges - will post some pics this weekend.
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Re: Lachstock and Four Turbo Charged Cylinders ['04 NB SE]

Postby rascal » Thu Jun 24, 2021 7:42 am

Nice idea.
Is that just hvac hose you can get from aircon mobs?

I put a port in the back wall of my shed for just this purpose, but haven’t gotten the pipe yet, and this is a timely reminder to do so..

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Re: Lachstock and Four Turbo Charged Cylinders ['04 NB SE]

Postby ManiacLachy » Thu Jun 24, 2021 8:42 am

bruce wrote:It's simple, Lachy thinks he's a big fish (ya gotta open that garage door when tuning cars)!


Lokiel wrote:Since you'll probably be tuning under the house, get a hose long enough to ensure that you can vent downwind.

PS: Not far off fully testing V2 of the sensor box + OLED gauges - will post some pics this weekend.


Actually, my garage is just under the house, which is only battoned in, not walled, it's an elevated Queenslander. So air flow isn't an issue. I don't expect to be doing much tuning like that anyway, idle is running really well from just some fueling adjustment.

I'm looking forward to Gauges v2.0! For some reason it's been somewhat stable since I picked the car up, it still glitches, but then it comes back to life. It was really useful for spotting what my peak boost was, and how the cooling system is working. (more details on all that soon!)

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Re: Lachstock and Four Turbo Charged Cylinders ['04 NB SE]

Postby bruce » Thu Jun 24, 2021 12:45 pm

HVAC stuff would melt. That'd be expensive aluminium or tin flexible piping used in range hoods.

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Re: Lachstock and Four Turbo Charged Cylinders ['04 NB SE]

Postby ManiacLachy » Thu Jun 24, 2021 1:24 pm

I have my car back!

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Sitting pretty in the afternoon sun

OK, let's review. Around October 2019 the car was ticking over 200,000km and was due a timeing belt and water pump job. I'd just gotten the Subaru Liberty as a daily driver and figured I could tackle the service job myself, and one or two other things at the same time, and not worry about an extended down time. I got the job done with a couple of hiccups, it took longer than expected but the car started and ran! A short time later I found the car was spilling oil at an alarming rate. That was 18 months ago and the last time I drove the car until this past Thursday!

I couldn't solve the oil leak, I feared it was turbo related. Ever since reading Lokiel's thread around the time I got my car I always knew an EFR upgrade was in my future. I had started stock piling parts about 2 years ago, starting with the Kraken manifold, dump and exhaust. Then last year I picked up the turbo and a few other bits and started bugging Daffy's Wunder-mechanic Darren to fit me in to do the install. I thought if the oil problem was the turbo, let's just get on and replace the thing! But Lokiel's thread showed me that there were a few issues I wasn't prepared to tackle, so I wanted a professional, and we've seen how good Daffy's car is!

Late last year, Darren gave me the call I'd been waiting on and I booked a tow truck, loaded all the bits into the back of the Subaru and went down to his workshop on the Gold Coast.

6 months later, and here we are! It took longer than expected, but that's often the way with these things. The work looks fantastic, Darren's reputation is well earned.

Darren installed:
The Kraken setup and the EFR6258
Flyin Miata coolant re-route
Mazda "Square Top" intake (from VVT cars)
Skunk2 Throttle Body
Fab9 Stage 1 front mount intercooler
Custom fabricated intercooler pipes

He also:
Ceramic coated the manifold, turbine housing and dump pipe
Re-purposed the Nitro Dann air intake box and catch can
Fixed the leaky AC
Re-routed AC pipes to make way for the dump pipe
Sorted general fitment issues that are always necessary on cars such as this
And various odds and ends

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Showing off Darren's good works at the All Jap pre-meet

Since the leak was found in early 2020 and the car was grounded, I've continued to make mods. It's a disease. So there were a number of changes that I have detailed earlier in this thread but I hadn't yet experienced on the car until yesterday!
Flat door cards
Focal Speakers
ATI damper and 36-2 trigger wheel
FlowForce LS Coils
Flyin Miata Cross-flow Radiator
A new shorty antena
Guardian Designs 330mm steering wheel

So, A LOT has changed!


First, I'm going to go over the interior changes. I realise the turbo is probably the most interesting change, but I've put a lot of energy into this interior!

The smaller steering wheel and the flat door cards give me a lot of room. I can move my legs freely, heel and toe, raise my throttle leg to give it a rest (it used to be wedged in tight). There' no arm rest anymore, but I haven't found that to be an issue, occasionally I'll go to put my elbow on the rest, realise it's not there and just drop my hand into my lap. The door upper pads, from an NA do squeak and rub against the NB dash, I'll try to apply some sort of grease or cream to help that, but it might be something I have to live with.

The steering feel is heavier now, 330mm vs 365mm of the OEM wheel. It's not super heavy by any means, but there's now some weight to it. I don't think I'd want to combine this wheel with de-powered steering. The wheel feels great in the hand, the leather is soft, the rim is thick and the hands fall to the thumb grips. Because of my lowered seating position I can see the guages perfectly well, nothing is cut off. It was an expensive purchase to be sure, but worth it. Something is up with my indicators, indicating right isn't clicking into place properly - but I suspect this is to do with the replaced clockspring from a little while ago, or my installation while putting it in.

The speakers are excellent. I need to post up on the speaker thread, give that a bump because the information there really guided me and I'm very happy with the sound. I got a pair of Focal splits, and on a cruise home the other day I put a CD on and the detail coming from the speakers was amazing! Still running the stock head unit, but I am looking to upgrade that fairly soon.


Right - now for the engine bay.

The LS coils, ATI damper and 36-2 wheel are working wonderfully. The engine starts up much faster than before, and idles much more smoothly. The damper has taken a lot of the shake out of the old paint mixer!

The cooling system is working really well. This is probably mostly down to the FM crossflow rad, the re-route really just better distributes coolant, and I'm still using the stock fans. I have my fans set to come on at 94* and turn off at 90*, the temp will climb steadily in stop and go traffic, but drop very quickly once the fans come on. I think I've seen a peak of 96*, once the fans turn off it continues to cool (more likely the sensor is delayed?) to about 87*. On a run on Glorious the coolant was holding steady and cool. I'll have to wait for summer to really apraise it's effectiveness but so far so good.

Finally, the turbo!

The turbo feels good and makes excellent "Darth Vader" noises. It's much louder than the old IHI, and it's a lot of fun hearing the whooshing and blowing! The exhaust is about perfect too for my tastes too, it's noticable but not loud. Let's face it, the engine in these cars is not a master peice, no need for it to yell loudly. It just needs to flow well, and a little noise is nice.

Issues? I've had a couple - but I also expected them with a build like this, so many things changed at once. But nothing catestrophic. On the way home from the workshop on the highway I noticed my coolant temps fluctuating a lot, getting warmer than I'd expect but not to the point of overheating. When I got home and things cooled down I found the overflow empty, and when I popped the rad cap the rad wasn't full. I checked around for leaks but found none, I just don't think the system was burped propperly before leaving. I topped it up with distilled water and haven't had any more trouble.

The one I'm still working on is overboost. The car has a 5psi spring in the Turbosmart wastegate actuator, with a little pre-load I was expecting to hit 6-7psi so set my boost cut to 8psi. I hit that easily. So thinking the turbo simply can't flow that little I bumped the cut to 10psi, and still hit that easily. I checked my settings, boost control is off, and I even bypassed the solenoid so the wastegate saw the boost directly, and still hitting the cut.

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Boost soleniod bypassed

Lokiel (and others who read up on these things) already know the answer.

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This should be a smooth fit!

The wastegate rod isn't aligned properly. The EFRs are very very very sensitive to the wastegate actuator's rod lining up well with the flapper, if you have to angle or bend the rod to get it on the flapper, the actuator will bind and the wastegate won't open fully. I'm in the process of correcting this now, hopefully I can test it out this weekend and report a steady <10psi boost. Then I can begin tuning EBC, and also properly tune the fuel for the higher RPM cells.

OK, that'll do for now, there's enough here I think. Thanks for reading! Let me know if there are any questions on things I've missed.

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Rolling on to the field with Daffy at the official All Jap day

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Re: Lachstock and Four Turbo Charged Cylinders ['04 NB SE]

Postby greenMachine » Fri Jun 25, 2021 8:50 am

Great to see the car back, and the detailed update on progress. :D :beer:

It is irrelevant for you now, but did you find out the source of the original oil leak? I ask because mine is still stock, and every little piece of info can be useful one day ...

Regarding the WG length/alignment issue, is there a reason that a 'L' bracket or similar can not solve both, or at least provide a better basis for the ball joint rod end needed? Or is that direction you are going?

Car looks great, though the big FMIC screams 'please book me Officer'. I painted mine matte black, a side benefit is that black gives you better heat rejection, though I doubt the size of benefit would be seen in the post-IC intake temps.

:mrgreen:

A late thought - is the travel of the TS rod a limiting factor in making an adaptor between the rod and the WG fitting?
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Re: Lachstock and Four Turbo Charged Cylinders ['04 NB SE]

Postby ManiacLachy » Fri Jun 25, 2021 1:29 pm

greenMachine wrote:It is irrelevant for you now, but did you find out the source of the original oil leak? I ask because mine is still stock, and every little piece of info can be useful one day ...


Did I forget to mention it? Maybe it was my shame ... The oil leak was the result of an exhaust cam seal failure. The monkey who installed it (me) didn't lube the edge and rolled a lip while pressing it in. Quite frustrating that I could have fixed that in minutes and continued driving for an extra year before getting the turbo installed. But my mind went to the worst case scenario and didn't even think about the seals. Darren spotted it in about 60 seconds.

greenMachine wrote:Regarding the WG length/alignment issue, is there a reason that a 'L' bracket or similar can not solve both, or at least provide a better basis for the ball joint rod end needed? Or is that direction you are going?

Car looks great, though the big FMIC screams 'please book me Officer'. I painted mine matte black, a side benefit is that black gives you better heat rejection, though I doubt the size of benefit would be seen in the post-IC intake temps.

:mrgreen:

A late thought - is the travel of the TS rod a limiting factor in making an adaptor between the rod and the WG fitting?


No, EFRs are very picky. Lokiel tried all sorts of tricks to fix his binding on his custom NitroDann fabbed low mount manifold, no success. I also tried fitting up the EFR stock actuator and it's got the same issue, so its not a TS specific problem.

Black painted ICs quickly get stone chips, I got a black one for my SE and it looks like trash after a couple of years. I like the aggressiveness of the shiny one, and the car was turbo from factory so should an officer have an issue I think I have a solid case. Not that a cop has harassed me without cause in all my time with the car.

The binding issue should be solved by a re-clock of the bearing, only needs to move a few degrees.

Unfortunately ... I think in my haste to fix the issue, and my ham-fisted bluntness, I may have done some damage to the CHRA... I might be looking at a new super core :shock:

I'm a bit depressed by it right now.

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Re: Lachstock and Four Turbo Charged Cylinders ['04 NB SE]

Postby The American » Fri Jun 25, 2021 1:56 pm

Turbosmart now sell a version of this actuator with an integrated ball joint to help with alignment issues. I have the older version unfortunately.

Hope your turbo is not hurt. :(

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Re: Lachstock and Four Turbo Charged Cylinders ['04 NB SE]

Postby ManiacLachy » Fri Jun 25, 2021 2:07 pm

The single port TS actuator has a rubber grommet that allows some deflection, as opposed to the brass bushing I hear is in the old dual port version. But the rod still needs to travel on a straight path or it will bind.

I need to go back down and have a good look to assess what's going on. But it's a bit cold and grey today, maybe tomorrow afternoon I can see how stupid I've been. A new supercore will cost ~USD$1100 + shipping.

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Re: Lachstock and Four Turbo Charged Cylinders ['04 NB SE]

Postby Lokiel » Sat Jun 26, 2021 12:46 am

Bummer about the wastegate actuator.
At least with a high-mount turbo you've got space to be able to try different solutions.
My original low-mount solution made it REALLY hard to do much and I even had MX5Plus and one of their preferred turbo-specialists try and come up with a solution - they failed, the wastegate would bind badly and I wasn't game enough to drive it on the track because I'd never know if I was going to get maximum power or no power dur to the wastegate valve "sticking". I gave them 3 different wastegate actuators and they ended up modifying (custom-bending) the shaft of an XR6 turbo wastegate actuator to try and make it work.
This is one of my biggest fears about the Kraken low-mount manifold and I'm still not convinced that it's not a problem on them.

Mounting the bracket on the "next" clockable position on the turbo may help but I suspect you may have to make a custom bracket to get it perfect - basically the bolt holes and hole for the actuator shaft will have to be shifted slightly. Elongating the holes where the bracket mounts to the turbo is another option to allow "fine-clocking" (some of the Garrett brackets have very "long" bolt holes to do this).
Unfortunately that bracket is a massive chunk of hardened steel so you might want to try creating a sturdy template first (ie. one that doesn't flex) that you can test-fit with the engine cold and "play" with the actuator before making the final bracket.

I have a collection of Garret brackets and also have the "low EFR" wastegate actuator bracket that you can try too if you want (the "low EFR" version is definitely worth a shot - from memory it only has 2x bolts to the turbo vs the 3x bolts of the normal one so elongating those requires 1/3 less effort).

Also, I agree with you regarding NOT painting the intercooler black, they get "ratty" very quickly which looks shiite.
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Garage Thread: http://www.mx5cartalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=76716


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