What to get to replace BARMY

[93_Clubman]

And 93_Clubman will be pleased.

Not at all Dave - it's a much finer line when one remembers that it's 118 miles not kms, it's been turbo'd for an unknown number of miles, & treatment & condition are unknown.
+1 GM's comment about taking your time, especially if the market over there is anything like here, & is being skewed by COVID-19, which has caused a supply decline & high prices.

[davekmoore]

And 93_Clubman will be pleased.

Not at all Dave - it's a much finer line when one remembers that it's 118 miles not kms, it's been turbo'd for an unknown number of miles, & treatment & condition are unknown.
+1 GM's comment about taking your time, especially if the market over there is anything like here, & is being skewed by COVID-19, which has caused a supply decline & high prices.

The high mileage BBR 200 I'm still considering is normally aspirated. Given that it was BBR's owners car originally, I think it will have been converted from new, with intake, headers, full exhaust, part decat, cams, and remap. I haven't seen the car yet, but the owner assures me (!) it uses no oil. It's a tiny thing, but he invested £14 in an easier to read dipstick. Things like that please me, along with what he's done to the brakes. I wouldn't be able to leave the wheels gold though, on a silver car. Horrible.
I'm hearing good things from the States about high mileage NC2s and bad things about medium mileage NC1s, as you suggested.

This BBR NB8B turbo:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-detail ... X-5&page=1
is about the lowest mileage NB, and probs the nicest in the UK, especially with 250bhp. I'd have to get the price right though, and take the badges off. And it doesn't have AC!

Noted, about taking my time. For instance, the NC1 owner came back to me this evening offering me an even sweeter deal after messing me about and losing the other buyer he thought he had. I just wasn't prepared to trust him again. Why do people do that sh1t? I've never reneged on a deal in my life.

If anything, prices for new and newish cars are dropping here as dealers find it harder to sell cars. However, really nice older cars with history, spec, and low mileage seem to be holding their value or gaining a touch, which is good news for the lovely old Merc.

[bruce]

Yes, a deal is a deal. Both legally and morally.

[93_Clubman]

The high mileage BBR 200 I'm still considering is normally aspirated

Ah righto, automatically associated BBR with turbo - still high mileage so you'd want to be real confident about treatment history.
That NB8B appears very, very tidy, but exxy as you say.
'Will a mint turbo NB appreciate in value if I only do 5,000 miles a year?' Not much fun in that, but guess it will eventually appreciate. My concern would be it going BARMY being another turbo'd 2004!
No AC? You're in the UK - the beer's warm, what's the problem?
Yep, somersault at your peril - just deserts for the NC1 owner.
An example of high asking prices here today is a 1998 NB8A with 187k kms for $11k - at beginning of the year it would have been half that if he was serious about selling.

[Mr Morlock]

Re comment on values- if you have collectable cars the sell price in UK is much higher than Aust. An example an Austin Healey valued at $90,000 here can apparently sell the same except GBP. I am betting that a Porsche is much the same. The Brits like their sports cars but its pretty clear you need a garage to keep them out of the way of the elements. Barmy would have been a good licence plate for UK.

[davekmoore]

After asking loads of questions, went on a 6 hour round trip to drive a BBR200 NC2 soft top today. Once again, the Merc performed perfectly. 42mpg too.

The NC2 had a full 3” exhaust and backbox, which was HORRIBLE. I’m sure it wouldn’t pass the noise test on an annual inspection. It was so loud it sounded like the diff was about to explode. Passed the car up for that reason, plus there were things that smacked of it not being looked after as well as had been described.

Maybe I’m destined to keep the Merc. Or there’s an EOS with the 3.2 V6 and 250bhp (from the factory) ..........

[davekmoore]

Good to hear from you Dave, and to see you are going to start playing with MX5s again.
Can you do the 2.5 swap over there Dave?
A PRHT with engine issues would be cheap, and if you could throw some mild cams, a zorst and intake at it at the same time, you are looking at quite a weapon. A reliable weapon too ...

I’ve discovered a guy who imports low mileage 2.5s from America.

What’s the likely labour cost to swap a 2.5 in?
Do they need a clutch?
How much more power/torque - I realise it won’t be automatically 25% more of everything?

[davekmoore]

Double update:

I was completely wrong about the supply of 2.5s here .....
There’s also a business that specialises in swapping 2.0 motors for low mileage 2.5s from Japan. £2,795 all in.

The motors can also be bought for £1,000 elsewhere, with a separate business charging £1,000 for labour. And you get your old 2.0 motor back - worth about £400. So over £1,000 cheaper.

Also went to see and drive the high mileage NC2 BBR200 PRHT Sport Tech today (lovely old Merc (LOM) was perfect on the 7 hour round trip). It was BRILLIANT! Everything about it was like a 30,000 mile 3 year old car, except the suspension, brakes and power, which were miles better than any standard NC, including the one that disappointed me so much when I first came back to the UK.

The owner and I couldn’t quite agree on a deal to take the LOM as part of the deal, so he’s already offered an excellent discount. Bearing in mind that I think I might be the only buyer for that exact car in the UK, I think we’ll agree on a final price tomorrow.

[greenMachine]

This may now be overtaken by events, tech guide to 2.5 swap will give you an idea of what is involved.

[Mr Morlock]

looks like a lot of work and money for little if any practical gain.

[bruce]

That's what I don't understand about a 2.5 swap. You only gain a little bit of power for such a major job. It would be a lot easier turbocharging the existing 2.0 for a much bigger gain.

[davekmoore]

This may now be overtaken by events, tech guide to 2.5 swap will give you an idea of what is involved.

Thanks. It’s not overtaken by events. I’m now down to three choices from which I will buy or keep one car. All 3 cars are silver, and my last 2 MX5s were silver!

1. A very well sorted normally aspirated BBR200(hp) NC2 PRHT. Drives like new except goes, rides, stops and handles way better. It’s done 118,000 miles, hence my perhaps overly pessimistic interest in 2.5 swaps, which I now know are cheaper than rebuilding a 2.0. So you just would, wouldn’t you? Mind you, this car won’t see a track, and I’m hearing plenty of good things from America about high mileage NC2s (and bad things about 70,000 mile NC1s). I would not be doing to the work myself (but thanks for the instructions as they make sense of the quotes I’ve had of $4,500 to £5,500 including a low mileage Jap or USA motor).

Seller has already offered a usefully lower price than advertised and there will be more to come.

The gold wheels and the pink callipers will have to go, and I’d replace the coolant overflow tank with an ally one. Car has perfect and recent service history. Enthusiast owned.

2. A fully road sorted 2005 NB8B Sport with only 24,000 miles and a BBR250 turbo conversion. It’s advertised at a price I’d nearly pay for a fully forged one, which it isn’t. So I’ve bid 2/3rds of the asking price, and, if it comes for that, I’d wind it down to 225 to preserve the rods.

Has recent and perfect service history including recent cambelt due on age, not mileage.

The last choice is to keep the 2003 Merc C200K Coupe SE auto. Lovely old car. Big sunroof. Lots of airbags. Full Merc dealer service history. 43,000 miles. 164hp (actually goes reasonably well).
BUT IT’S VERY VERY BORING!

Wish I could keep the Merc and an MX5 but only one parking space at my apartment. So I’ll have to get a taxi to take my 100 year old uncle to watch to cricket.

[davekmoore]

[*]

looks like a lot of work and money for little if any practical gain.

One of the cars I’m considering is a modified 200hp NC with 118,000 miles, so, although these motors do very high mileages, I was looking at how much the high mileage car would stand me if it blew up and needed a replacement, compared with how much I’d have to pay for a low mileage 2.0.

Considering the expensive mods to it, the maths are if favour of the high mileage car (which drives perfectly). If it lasts my driving life, I’m well ahead, and have a nicely modded road car. If the motor gives out, in total including a 2.5 swap, I’d have paid the same as a low mileage car but would then have a nicely modded 2.5 with maybe 230hp (all the mods swap from 2.0 to 2.5).

[davekmoore]

That's what I don't understand about a 2.5 swap. You only gain a little bit of power for such a major job. It would be a lot easier turbocharging the existing 2.0 for a much bigger gain.

Ordinarily I’d completely agree, especially as the cams, headers, intake, exhaust, backbox and remap were done by BBR, who also do turbos, and were the first owners of the car.

However, please see my reply to MrMorlock. But, since you’ve mentioned it, won’t it be nice to do 2.5 AND turbo?

[davekmoore]

The owner of the NB has nearly come to the party with price, so now it’s a choice between the high mileage NC PRHT with 200hp or the low mileage turbo NB with 250hp at around the same price. Both are properly sorted as quick road cars and drive perfectly.

What would you do?