NB8B + Turbo. Engineers Cert required?

[hks_kansei]

If the MG business has an agreement on process with VR then thats fine but - there is a give away i.e. the engine does not just go in without other mods like a suspension change so in other words its not just a simple swap.

There is no such thing as an "agreement with Vicroads" other than being either a VASS engineer, or a licenced Roadworthy tester.
This shop is neither.


When the rules talk about suspension swaps etc they are talking about simple bolt on/bolt off parts, not ones that require the chassis to be altered (those would need a VASS cert)

To swap an MX5 to have SE suspension, or an MGB 4 cyl to have the V8 springs, or a V6 Commodore to have the V8 front suspension is no more complex than replacing the existing suspension when it becomes worn out.

Which does not require a VASS certificate.


Even replacing the suspension with non factory components is permitted without a VASS certificate.
Such as using lowering springs, or using Koni brand shocks instead of the factory fitted ones, or even putting on adjustable coilover units. (provided of course they still meet the normal height/travel requirements)

All of those are permitted without a VASS cert.

[hks_kansei]

For reference:

https://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/registr ... ifications

Change of engine scenario one:
The replacement engine is identical to the original engine.
The replacement engine is an option allowed by the manufacturer for the same model vehicle.
Documents required:

if the engine is optional to the original, a signed declaration is needed from the registered operator, motor mechanic, dealer of that make of vehicle or automotive engineer, certifying that the engine is optional for the vehicle model, and that all modifications made by the manufacturer for the same vehicle model with that optional engine have been completed
a completed change of vehicle details form [PDF 68 Kb].
VicRoads will need to inspect the vehicle to confirm the new engine details. Please attend a VicRoads Customer Service Centre that provides vehicle inspections. No appointment is required.

Note: The optional engine must be offered in Australia by the vehicle manufacturer as an option for that vehicle (or certified variants).

The bolding for emphasis is mine.

But Vicroads are very clear that for an engine offered from the factory in that model car (even if the specific vehicle in question is of a lower model and was not originally fitted with the option engine) it only needs to have a stat dec filled in.

[bruce]

Very interesting. Looks like it applies to a complete SE engine swap. I think adding only an SE turbo and all the extras would not be applicable and require Engineering. The latter would not result in a change of engine number and thus the above not be relevant.
I think?

[StanTheMan]

what about an SP?

[hks_kansei]

Very interesting. Looks like it applies to a complete SE engine swap. I think adding only an SE turbo and all the extras would not be applicable and require Engineering. The latter would not result in a change of engine number and thus the above not be relevant.
I think?

That's my understanding as well.
Has to be all or nothing, not just parts of (unless those parts fall within the general accepted mod list, like springs, air intakes, exhausts, etc)

You'd need to talk to vicroads for the specific minutiae of putting SE turbo bits onto a non-SE.

what about an SP?

I would assume so, since they were sold by Mazda themselves weren't they? (rather than being sold by Allen Horsley's business and accepted for warranty by Mazda)

The catch though would be the "all or nothing" bit mentioned above by Bruce.
and since the SP is so hard to find, it's unlikely you'd be able to pickup a spare engine from one, let alone find all the extra bits like airboxes, ECU, etc.

In saying that, from a practicality point of view, the SP doesnt actually have any specific engine number changes compared to a regular NB8B, so I would assume that you could in theory put in a regular NB engine with all the SP gear attached.

But yeah, in order to have access to all the SP gear you'd need, you'd have to basically already own an SP you're willing to gut.

[StanTheMan]

as long as your tecnician knows about the SP. Signs for it....No?

[hks_kansei]

Yeah, while everything i'm quoting above is the intention of the law, in reality a lot of owners just dont bother and sign it off with the minimum work done.

Also, doesnt need a mechanic to sign, just the "registered operator" ie: whoever's name is on the rego papers.


Worth noting that it doesnt make you immune to receiving a defect notice, if the officer thinks the car has not been done correctly, or has other modifications beyond what is allowed, you'll still get a sticker.

But having done things the right way means that having the sticker cleared is a lot easier.

Same with a VASS cert, it's not a guarantee the car wont get a defect, it just means getting it cleared is a lot simpler (show the RWC tester the VASS cert and they'll just need to check nothing's been changed from what was on the cert)

[Beelzeboss]

As the SE engine and gearbox are identical to the standard NB8B engine, surely all you need are the different bits from the SE.

Off the top of my head you'd need the turbo setup, exhaust, intercooler, piping, ECU, brakes (same as NB8C?).

This was my plan to get a turbo MX5 on the road legally, and since SE's are so rare and most mechanics have never seen one then as long as your turbo install looks halfway OEM I'm sure they'd pass it. Nobody is going to check the ECU either.

[StanTheMan]

actuallty the SE engine is different to the NB8B. It doesn't have VVT it has more in common with the NB8A.

but that's splitting hair.

If you want it legal. You will need engineering.

no one is arguing if the OP wants to put a turbo and not getting caught out. good chance he/she will not get Caught out

[Beelzeboss]

actuallty the SE engine is different to the NB8B. It doesn't have VVT it has more in common with the NB8A.

but that's splitting hair.

If you want it legal. You will need engineering.

no one is arguing if the OP wants to put a turbo and not getting caught out. good chance he/she will not get Caught out

Well I learned something today! Had no idea the engine was any different

But I disagree. If you fit all the SE gear (as-in *everything* that's different on an SE) then it doesn't need engineering to be legal, because that's an optional setup for that model.

No different to fitting all SS gear in a V6 commodore, totally legal without engineering as long as it's all there.

(In NSW at least)

[Beelzeboss]

Having just bought a 2002 NB8B yesterday this has become even more relevant to my idle mind.

Does the SP use the standard NB8B engine? If so, then it should be fairly simple to legally turbo the car without engineering.

[beavis]

Does the SP use the standard NB8B engine?

Yes

[Mr Morlock]

No Yes Yes no- - the document shown was 2011 i.e. is it up to date. 20% more than standard allowable ... is that worth the effort and money? Besides you would still want to be certain before spending $$.

[Beelzeboss]

No Yes Yes no- - the document shown was 2011 i.e. is it up to date. 20% more than standard allowable ... is that worth the effort and money? Besides you would still want to be certain before spending $$.

VSB14 (the document I highlighted) is the current standard for modifications to vehicles in NSW.

The highlighted section is the relevant one, no mention of 20% power increase, that rule is about certification under code LA1 (engineering by a VSCCS certifier).

The assumption is that if all turbo optional components are fitted as per OEM, then it will make the same power as the OEM installation (157kw for an SP), and hence not need engineering - seems pretty clear-cut to me...

Yes, you would need to get it engineered if you pushed the power past this point, but so would a genuine SE or SP, and I doubt there are any SE/SP's with an exhaust or mild turbo upgrade that are engineered for it.

It's no different to a standard Impreza with a WRX turbo setup bolted on, done perfectly legally without engineering all the time.

[bootz]

"It's no different to a standard Impreza with a WRX turbo setup bolted on, done perfectly legally without engineering all the time."

Really, you can do that?

Lots of luck, I thought the same as you, an SP type setup would be great if legal, all the naysayers on the forum said "No it is not that simple"
but it WAS a limited edition option on exactly the same car!(exc minor cosmetics)