NB8B + Turbo. Engineers Cert required?

[Sirois]

Hi guys,

Just wondering if you do a turbo conversion to an NB, does it need an engineers certificate or can it be registered as an SE?

Also, since installing engines that came as an option does not require engineering, could you at the least transplant an SE motor and avoid engineers certificates?

[StanTheMan]

No it doesn’t work like that.
Anything more than 20% more in power requires engineering.

Transferring a SE engine also requires you to transfer the brakes & exsaust. But talking to a engineer would be your best bet.





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[hks_kansei]

As above, it really depends on your state.

For Vic at least, to avoid the need for engineering you would need to use an SE engine, with ALL the SE mechanical parts.

So SE engine + turbo etc, plus ALL the factory emissions gear and ECU
As well as SE suspension
and any extra bracing the SE had over the NB8B

you would then need to fill out s stat dec declaring that you have used a factory offered engine, and have installed it as the factory did, with all the factory changed parts.

So far as the rego papers go, it wouldnt be registered "as an SE" since Vicroads dont actually take specific models into account (it would however have a change of engine number, and a file note about the changes made)


Basically, the reason very few people do it is that by the time you've bought all the SE parts and swapped it, you could have just bought an SE to start with.





If you're doing a non factory turbo, you'll want to speak to a VASS engineer from the start and get their thoughts on what you need to do for them to pass it.

[hks_kansei]

Think of having an engineered car as like building a house.


you don't just start slapping bits of wood together and make a building and THEN have the building inspector show up. They may say the work is wrong and ask you to start again.


You make plans and have them looked at before you do any work at all, and have the work inspected periodically while you're doing it.

[93_Clubman]

depends on your state.

Believe Victoria given a post by OP a couple of months ago:

So, the car is a Mitsubishi Lancer FWD that I use purely at Winton Raceway.

[bruce]

One word answer for Vic;
Yes.

[Mr Morlock]

If its Vic I would say it has to a VASS cert but I might be wrong. The logic is that the car was not built and certified as a turbo charged vehicle and its simply not the same as an SE- the Vin will give it away. HKS is spot on - get the question asked of the authorities and then proceed

[Red_Bullet]

It'd be easier to move to QLD. That or just buy a fast car out of the box.

[StanTheMan]

that and if he asctually read the Vic roads engine mods thing.
takes 2 seconds to google

it talks about a 114kg limit

[hks_kansei]

If its Vic I would say it has to a VASS cert but I might be wrong. The logic is that the car was not built and certified as a turbo charged vehicle and its simply not the same as an SE- the Vin will give it away.

Vicroads do allow you to use an engine (without a VASS engineer cert) that was available from the manufacturer in that chassis, regardless of whether that exact vehicle originally had that engine fitted.
provided that you also fit any strengthened/modified parts from the factory, and all emissions equipment as fitted by the factory are also present.


It's the way that many MBGs are converted to V8s, since MG offered a V8 from factory in the MGB chassis you simply need to fit the engine, and the front suspension from the V8 model (plus a few other little bits that changed)
The certification process is then as simple as filling in a change of vehicle details form from Vicroads, as well as a stat dec to delcare that you did indeed fit the correct parts. Then present the car to Vicroads for them to confirm the engine number in person and update their database.

It's an extremely common option for cars like the MGB, and Holden Commodores (converting a V6 base model to have a V8 from an SS or higher model)
Mainly due to the few parts needing be to changed other than the engine (I think the MGB V8 only needs the front springs changed to V8 ones, and the front brakes from memory, plus being an older car the emissions equipment is minimal)



The Vin does not need to be that of the V8/turbo model, so far as Vicroads are concerned.

The differing Vin will however mean the resale value of the car is reduced, but that's the owner's concern rather than Vicroads.

[Mr Morlock]

I am not sure thats actually right- i.e. Stat Decs. If the vehicle was not fitted with a certain engine presumably an engineer/ VR looks at the whole package- if it needs bigger brakes or different suspension etc then it becomes something more specific. There are a lot of vehicles floating about which are not legal- guys making changes and taking various shortcuts. The issue with the VIN is that it defines what the car was built as.

[StanTheMan]

I’ve never heard of a vin being part of anything.
My 1.8 con version they looked at the engine number. Cared nothing about Vin. They checked that I used the same exsaust header & standard air box. They checked I had the NB brakes. Well maybe they didn’t , they are supposed to .That’s it.
When it came to engine size & power it is 20% or less in cc & power output . No engineer needs to get involved.
Anything over 20% it needs to be certified . That’s in NSW.
In Victoria they talk about the whole car being no more than 114kg heavier.
So when you implant the replica SP engine from the NB.....it’s more than 20% in power.? Good chance you’ll need to get an engineer involved. But Victoria doesn’t talk about 20%.....
So go & talk to a blue slip guy or an engineer. Those documents are usually general. This sounds a bit more specific


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[hks_kansei]

I am not sure thats actually right- i.e. Stat Decs. If the vehicle was not fitted with a certain engine presumably an engineer/ VR looks at the whole package- if it needs bigger brakes or different suspension etc then it becomes something more specific. There are a lot of vehicles floating about which are not legal- guys making changes and taking various shortcuts. The issue with the VIN is that it defines what the car was built as.

I'm quoting exactly how it's done with MGBs by one of Melbourne's most well known MG specialists.
As well as having read the relevant section of the legislation myself.

A VASS engineer is only required if the engine you are using is one that was not available for that vehicle in a factory fitment, or the engine has been modified beyond what Vicroads has listed as modifications which do not require VASS approval (such as minor things like air intakes etc)

[Ven3li]

If its Vic I would say it has to a VASS cert but I might be wrong. The logic is that the car was not built and certified as a turbo charged vehicle and its simply not the same as an SE- the Vin will give it away.

Vicroads do allow you to use an engine (without a VASS engineer cert) that was available from the manufacturer in that chassis, regardless of whether that exact vehicle originally had that engine fitted.
provided that you also fit any strengthened/modified parts from the factory, and all emissions equipment as fitted by the factory are also present.


It's the way that many MBGs are converted to V8s, since MG offered a V8 from factory in the MGB chassis you simply need to fit the engine, and the front suspension from the V8 model (plus a few other little bits that changed)
The certification process is then as simple as filling in a change of vehicle details form from Vicroads, as well as a stat dec to delcare that you did indeed fit the correct parts. Then present the car to Vicroads for them to confirm the engine number in person and update their database.

It's an extremely common option for cars like the MGB, and Holden Commodores (converting a V6 base model to have a V8 from an SS or higher model)
Mainly due to the few parts needing be to changed other than the engine (I think the MGB V8 only needs the front springs changed to V8 ones, and the front brakes from memory, plus being an older car the emissions equipment is minimal)



The Vin does not need to be that of the V8/turbo model, so far as Vicroads are concerned.

The differing Vin will however mean the resale value of the car is reduced, but that's the owner's concern rather than Vicroads.

This is exactly my experience putting a CA18DET into an s13 Silvia that came with a CA18DE when I lived in Victoria. Both engines were factory options for the early s13, all I did was take a receipt for the new engine to Vic Roads and have them change the engine number recorded against the car.

While I owned the car it was defected for an exhaust that was too loud, an aftermarket front mount intercooler and silly pod filter. I was sent to the EPA for a full inspection and had to get a road worthy to have the defect cleared. At no point during the process of having the defect cleared was the turbo engine an issue.

[Mr Morlock]

If the MG business has an agreement on process with VR then thats fine but - there is a give away i.e. the engine does not just go in without other mods like a suspension change so in other words its not just a simple swap. The bottom line legislation can get very dense but ultimately in Vic its VR that approve or otherwise. I still say anyone reckoning on adding a turbocharger etc to an MX-5 should check before they start spending money.