V-Sport AP ARacing 296mm 4 Piston NA/NB Front Brake Setup

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Re: V-Sport AP ARacing 296mm 4 Piston NA/NB Front Brake Setup

Postby 16bit » Thu Apr 11, 2019 9:05 pm

Luke wrote:That wouldn't be the CP7611-1001 Kit??? All made by AP Racing.
CP7611 Calipers
276x24mm rotors CP7600D46-APF404
Hats, made by AP as well I gather

Yep I agree that wheel fitment will be the biggest problem and that is why I am posting here, to see who has this V-Sport AP Racing Kit and what wheels they run.



While I am at it I will say one dumb off topic thing.
Why does Renault put 312x28mm Rotors with Massive Brembo 4 Piston Callipers on my little 147.5KW(Crank) Clio RS???
If I went by the US Miata brake thread, I would be downsizing the brakes on the Clio because surely Renault had no idea what they were doing.


yes exactly that kit. its a road kit, not specific for race but will be more than enough with the right pads.

the reason i mention that they should be able to provide you the information is that if they would have sold any of those kits and should know who they went to and be able to get specs or at least point you in the right direction especially if they are going to get a sale out of it.

re clio i would say because thats what they could fit under the wheels for the budget they had from the bean counters. also fwd is much more front bias and needs more braking and heat capacity up front so not really apples for apples. what size does an 86 come with stock? similar power and weight to clio but closer weight distribution to mx5. either way modern cars have bigger wheels and brakes as a general rule as saftey standards increase over time as do stopping distances decrease.
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Re: V-Sport AP ARacing 296mm 4 Piston NA/NB Front Brake Setup

Postby Luke » Thu Apr 11, 2019 9:39 pm

StuwieP wrote:I have Wilwood dynapro calipers with dust boots about to go through engineering. Greenmachine this was your old setup, less the calipers.

I will let you know how things turn out on that front (and the boots catching fire on the track, since it will go there too).

Edit: also, where does everyone source their rotors for these BBKs - I've seen mention of cheap replacement rotors but no idea where to find them...


The el-cheapo standard Ultralite 32 Wilwood Rotors are cheap through most of the US distributors such as V8 Roadster, Goodwin, Supermiata and Trackspeed. Like $35-40USD a rotor. The problem is shipping stings you due to weight so the cheap factor goes out the window.
Did a quick quote through 949/Supermiata just now and shipping is $231.72USD!!!
I would not call $300USD cheap. It will work out to be $460 Australian once taxed and shipped.
There is a better Wilwood rotor, the HD36. It has direction curved Vain Cooling and better steel. They seem to be ~ $100USD a rotor. So another $180 Australian on top of the above price , $640.
Then you can pay more still for AP or PFC rotors or an even higher spec Wilwood GT36 rotor. I gather shipping would be similar for other suppliers of these as 949 don't offer these rotors.
I know that no one will just buy rotors when buying from overseas so you will get some economy of scale when you throw in some pads and other items, but the shipping really stings for heavy items.
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Re: V-Sport AP ARacing 296mm 4 Piston NA/NB Front Brake Setup

Postby greenMachine » Thu Apr 11, 2019 10:09 pm

track_addict wrote:Wilwood does calipers with dust boots, which I believe can be optioned on the American kits. They’re noted as catching fire and disintegrating on the track though. Might have to be a consumable item?

No mention that I have seen about dust boot options. I am not worried about how long they last (though I draw the line at catching fire :lol: ), just that they can be engineered. I fully expect them to suffer from 'wear and tear from use', and if necessary I would replace them whenever the calipers get rebuilt, every year or two probably.

StuwieP wrote:I have Wilwood dynapro calipers with dust boots about to go through engineering. Greenmachine this was your old setup, less the calipers.

I will let you know how things turn out on that front (and the boots catching fire on the track, since it will go there too).

Edit: also, where does everyone source their rotors for these BBKs - I've seen mention of cheap replacement rotors but no idea where to find them...

Thanks Stuwie. Sounds like the Wilwoods I was looking at.

I got my rotors from (I think) VPW in Melbourne, I can't remember the price but I was pretty happy.

:mrgreen:
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Re: V-Sport AP ARacing 296mm 4 Piston NA/NB Front Brake Setup

Postby rossint » Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:10 pm

greenMachine wrote:Ross, have you had your brakes engineered for road use? What is the part number for the caliper?

Thanks

Ed


What is “road use” :lol:
Dust seals on the brakes would be the least of my worries if I opened that can of worms.

I’ve seen the cheap wilwood rotors on eBay ex Australia for $99 each inc shipping, Summit Racing in the US is a good option for the wilwood stuff but they will sting you for gst unlike the smalller guys.

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Re: V-Sport AP ARacing 296mm 4 Piston NA/NB Front Brake Setup

Postby StuwieP » Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:13 pm

Luke wrote:
The el-cheapo standard Ultralite 32 Wilwood Rotors are cheap through most of the US distributors such as V8 Roadster, Goodwin, Supermiata and Trackspeed. Like $35-40USD a rotor. The problem is shipping stings you due to weight so the cheap factor goes out the window.
Did a quick quote through 949/Supermiata just now and shipping is $231.72USD!!!



https://www.ianboettcherraceparts.com.au/shop/Wilwood-160-0471-Ultralight-32-Vane-Rotor-8-x-7.00-Bolt-Circle-.810-Width-x-11.75.html

I believe this is the el-cheapo option. I haven't seen any of the other rotor types going around in Aus much though.

Madjak may also be able to pitch in, I believe he runs 11.75" rotors on his race car.
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Re: V-Sport AP ARacing 296mm 4 Piston NA/NB Front Brake Setup

Postby StuwieP » Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:14 pm

greenMachine wrote:Thanks Stuwie. Sounds like the Wilwoods I was looking at.

I got my rotors from (I think) VPW in Melbourne, I can't remember the price but I was pretty happy.

:mrgreen:


VPW was where I got the dust-boot calipers from.

I used wilwood's website to confirm the part numbers and then found them among the 1000 brake options VPW stock

edit: http://www.vpw.com.au/Category/Index/511446
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Re: V-Sport AP ARacing 296mm 4 Piston NA/NB Front Brake Setup

Postby rossint » Fri Apr 12, 2019 12:51 am



That’s them, cheapest I’ve seen them locally thank you!

Wilwood 11.75” Rotor part numbers:
160-0471 Chinesium
160-5841 Ultralight HP (better metal)

160-12285
160-12286 GT curved vane L&R

160-12283
160-12284 HD 36 curved vane L&R

They all have 1.52mm of wear before they’re rubbish.

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Re: V-Sport AP ARacing 296mm 4 Piston NA/NB Front Brake Setup

Postby plohl » Sat Apr 13, 2019 5:38 pm

I have recently been looking at this too, and I did not know about the vsport kit, so thanks for bring it to my attention. It definitely sounds like it won't fit with the common 15x8s.... if it fitted under 6uls.... definitely more brake than I need.

I recently put together a list of the popular kits from the states to compare costs. Once you factor in gst the exchange rate, I think the cheapest kit is about 1800AUD.

Pricing Dynapro radials, ultralite discs and some custom lines from hel, it'll be about $1100 sourced locally. I can draw up some brakets and hats and get them made easy enough, just trying to decide if it's worth my time. Might cost a little more than a kit from the states, but not much.
The superlite narrow caliper will give a little more clearance to the spokes than the dynapro radial and another 1mm of pad.

I might speak to vsport this week. Se if there's a fitment template.


Summary of the us kits with shipping to brisbane...
v8 roadster - Pro Radial Front BBK https://v8roadsters.com/product/pro-ser ... ial-mount/ - not sure if it includes pads.
`$925+178.77(shipping) = 1103.77USD`

Supermiata/949 - Dynapro 4 Radial BBK https://supermiata.com/Supermiata-1175- ... l-bbk.aspx
`$889 + $174 (pads) + $322.69 = $1385.69`
`$1212 without pads`
same price for shipping without pads

Flyin' Miata
BBK, Dynapro, stage 1 rear up grade - NO PADS https://www.flyinmiata.com/flyin-miata- ... na-nb.html
SKU: 14-162XX NANB BBK
Front (includes slotted front rotors)1 x FM Big Brake Kit for NA/NB, front only, black, 4-piston Dynapro $0.00 Rear1 x Stage 1: stock rear calipers on new brackets (1994-02) $220.00 Slotted rear brake rotors1 x 2001-05 Sport high performance brake rotors, rear $0.00
`$1374 + 486 (shipping) = 1850usd`
without rear
`1154 + 486 = 1640usd`

Trackspeed http://www.trackspeedengineering.com/Tr ... e-Kit.html
Dynapro dustboot calipers, full kit (whatever that means) NO PADS
`849 + 286 = 1134usd`

Flyin' miata LBBK https://www.flyinmiata.com/flyin-miata- ... e-kit.html
SKU: 14-1617X NANB LBBK - rear upgrade to wilwoods and hand brake
Front1 x FM front Little Big Brake Kit (11" size) US$0.00 Rear1 x Stage 2: 4 piston Powerlite rear calipers, 11" rotors, gray, with parking brake, NA/NB US$200.00
`1249+221 = $1470USD`
Cheers,
plohl

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Re: V-Sport AP ARacing 296mm 4 Piston NA/NB Front Brake Setup

Postby 16bit » Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:03 pm

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Re: V-Sport AP ARacing 296mm 4 Piston NA/NB Front Brake Setup

Postby Luke » Sun Apr 14, 2019 12:23 am

plohl wrote:I have recently been looking at this too, and I did not know about the vsport kit, so thanks for bring it to my attention. It definitely sounds like it won't fit with the common 15x8s.... if it fitted under 6uls.... definitely more brake than I need.

I recently put together a list of the popular kits from the states to compare costs. Once you factor in gst the exchange rate, I think the cheapest kit is about 1800AUD.

Pricing Dynapro radials, ultralite discs and some custom lines from hel, it'll be about $1100 sourced locally. I can draw up some brakets and hats and get them made easy enough, just trying to decide if it's worth my time. Might cost a little more than a kit from the states, but not much.
The superlite narrow caliper will give a little more clearance to the spokes than the dynapro radial and another 1mm of pad.

I might speak to vsport this week. Se if there's a fitment template.


Summary of the us kits with shipping to brisbane...
v8 roadster - Pro Radial Front BBK https://v8roadsters.com/product/pro-ser ... ial-mount/ - not sure if it includes pads.
`$925+178.77(shipping) = 1103.77USD`

Supermiata/949 - Dynapro 4 Radial BBK https://supermiata.com/Supermiata-1175- ... l-bbk.aspx
`$889 + $174 (pads) + $322.69 = $1385.69`
`$1212 without pads`
same price for shipping without pads

Flyin' Miata
BBK, Dynapro, stage 1 rear up grade - NO PADS https://www.flyinmiata.com/flyin-miata- ... na-nb.html
SKU: 14-162XX NANB BBK
Front (includes slotted front rotors)1 x FM Big Brake Kit for NA/NB, front only, black, 4-piston Dynapro $0.00 Rear1 x Stage 1: stock rear calipers on new brackets (1994-02) $220.00 Slotted rear brake rotors1 x 2001-05 Sport high performance brake rotors, rear $0.00
`$1374 + 486 (shipping) = 1850usd`
without rear
`1154 + 486 = 1640usd`

Trackspeed http://www.trackspeedengineering.com/Tr ... e-Kit.html
Dynapro dustboot calipers, full kit (whatever that means) NO PADS
`849 + 286 = 1134usd`

Flyin' miata LBBK https://www.flyinmiata.com/flyin-miata- ... e-kit.html
SKU: 14-1617X NANB LBBK - rear upgrade to wilwoods and hand brake
Front1 x FM front Little Big Brake Kit (11" size) US$0.00 Rear1 x Stage 2: 4 piston Powerlite rear calipers, 11" rotors, gray, with parking brake, NA/NB US$200.00
`1249+221 = $1470USD`


I think the Track speed kit you have listed is Lug Mount, Not Radial.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe all of the Trackspeed kits are Lug Mount, including the Superlite Caliper.

Yep with the US dollar so strong, and our Dollar so weak, it is making these "cheap" American kits expensive once you factor in shipping as well.
The V-SPort AP kit still costs more than most of them and is questionable what 15's it will fit, but at least you probably won't have to change rotors for years to come and the Pads should last a lot longer with overall lower temps reducing running costs.
I don't believe V-Sport have a template, that was one of the questions I asked them while I was over there.
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Re: V-Sport AP ARacing 296mm 4 Piston NA/NB Front Brake Setup

Postby plohl » Sun Apr 14, 2019 12:59 am

Yeah, i think you're right about the lug mounts for the track speed kit. I didn't realise the dynapro lug and radial use a different thickness pad either, and if they're using the thinner pad, may as well look at the powerlite caliper from FM's little big brake kit. Definitely not a solution for you with boost, but for my slow set up it should be sufficient.
Sucks that vsport don't have a template - no one wants to throw 2.5k at a brake kit, and then have to buy new wheels. I agree it might be a bit more than some of the wilwood kits from the states, but prefer to spend the money on product rather than shipping.
Cheers,
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Re: V-Sport AP ARacing 296mm 4 Piston NA/NB Front Brake Setup

Postby Luke » Tue Apr 30, 2019 9:57 pm

Well I guess I will have to go to the next MX-5 cup race on the 16th of June to do some investigating.
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Re: V-Sport AP ARacing 296mm 4 Piston NA/NB Front Brake Setup

Postby plohl » Tue Apr 30, 2019 10:34 pm

Did you get them?
I spoke to them about it a week or so ago, the guy said he would get me a template to test the wheels.... never heard anything back and haven't chased it up.
Cheers,
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Re: V-Sport AP ARacing 296mm 4 Piston NA/NB Front Brake Setup

Postby Luke » Tue Apr 30, 2019 11:32 pm

No I mean that I will be visiting the next MX-5 cup races as a spectator to see if anyone there has the kit.
I'm only down the road from SMSP so I will take a few different rims I have, and hope someone is there with this kit.
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Re: V-Sport AP ARacing 296mm 4 Piston NA/NB Front Brake Setup

Postby Luke » Wed May 01, 2019 12:46 am

I'm not in a super rush as somehow these Winmax W7 pad's on the standard NB8B setup with plain DBA 4000 rotors seem to hold on for sprints.
I am working out the rough cost of running the standard setup now that I have done 3 sprints in the car.
I bought the car with about 6 to 7mm of material on the front pads. After 3 events I now have no material.
I would say I would only get 4 sprints events out of a brand new set with 10.5mm of material. (I think that is how much new NB8B pads have)
The pads are around $350 so I would need 2 sets to run the usual 8 events I run at each year, so $700 just for pads.
The car was given to me with brand new rotors. I am hoping they would last 2 sets of pads or 8 events but can't say I'm confident that they will. They are also around $350 a pair.
So to run 1 year on quality standard front brakes will cost me at least $1050 in consumables!!! My rough working would equate that to somewhere around 500KM's of actual track mileage. Or another way of looking a it is about $6 a lap!!!
I have enough used half worn consumables to eat through for this year. Hence no need to rush.
But I would definitely want to get something sorted for next season/year.


Just to put the car in perspective I did a fair few laps between 1'05.4 to 1'05.6 at Wakefield last weekend with no fade after doing multiple sessions with 7 hard laps. GPS says I was hitting 187km/h before hitting the brakes for Turn 2. The car is 1070KG so is no light weight either. I got a 1'05.08 fluke lap in there as well some how.
I just can't believe I cannot get these Winmax W7's to fade. They must be made out of magic or similar.
I was struggling with Carbotech/GLOC XP12/R12 on my previous SE doing 1'08.5 to 1'09.0 and only hitting 165Km/h. That car was marginally heavier at 1120KG, but there is no way those pads would survive in the new car.
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