MX5 - Ideal track car?

[Sirois]

Hi guys,

As a track only car, would an NB MX5 be pretty ideal?
In the sense that they are cheap, handle well, have loads of aftermarket, fun to drive etc?

How would it compare to something like an Evo 6 as a track car?

Taking into account the NB would have a turbo kit etc installed.

[Magpie]

Get an EVO 6 or a S2000.

This is a well sorted out track car
https://m.facebook.com/story/graphql_permalink/?graphql_id=UzpfSTExMzUyNzI5NTQ6Vks6MTA5NjQ1NTg3Mzg3MjcxOQ%3D%3D

[Sirois]

Get an EVO 6 or a S2000.

This is a well sorted out track car
https://m.facebook.com/story/graphql_permalink/?graphql_id=UzpfSTExMzUyNzI5NTQ6Vks6MTA5NjQ1NTg3Mzg3MjcxOQ%3D%3D

Those cost a fair bit more than an MX5 though.
I saw a fair few NBs for under 10k, with some coilovers, tyres and brakes the car should already be pretty great on the track while I slowly turbo it (or just buy an SP from the beginning).

S2000 is a bit too special of a car to track with IMHO as fun as it may be I would not want to modify one as I think they are best left stock.

[Magpie]

Hi guys,

As a track only car, would an NB MX5 be pretty ideal?
In the sense that they are cheap, handle well, have loads of aftermarket, fun to drive etc?

How would it compare to something like an Evo 6 as a track car?

Taking into account the NB would have a turbo kit etc installed.

Add an aftermarket ECU, E85, cage, safety gear and supporting mods and your budget will need about another 15k. Adding lightness well another 10k. In the end you will spend close to 40k on a MX5 to get it track ready and middle of the pack. Then the cost of running/maintaining (tyres, rotors, oils, fuel, entry fees, towing car, trailer) and the list goes on...

[Lokiel]

PM lightyear regarding this.

He switched to a WRX for a while then back to an MX5 because the consumables were cheaper - being a very light car to start with, there's less wear and tear on brakes, rotors and tyres than most other cars.

[ManiacLachy]

Do you mean track car for fun and club events, or a race car for competition?

I think the NB is fantastic as a club level track car, great fun, easy maintenance, low cost consumables, huge aftermarket support. You can upgrade incrementally as you improve as a driver and learn the car, ECU, turbo, suspension, chassis bracing, etc.

Unless you spend a lot, it will be slower than an EVO or even an S2000, but if it's low cost/high fun you're after then there's not much better out there. If you want to compete and race against other makes, then you'll be at a disadvantage.

[Snowmotion]

I started with a 98 NB8A as my first MX5 and this is a great car on the road and really fun on the track.
Mods: MX5+ roll bar, MCA blue Coilovers, upgraded exhaust and intake, race seat and Avanti Storm1 15x7 wheels with Federal RSRR 205/50/15.
With these mods it will do 1:08.86 on South circuit Eastern Creek.
I purchased a wrecked NC to make into a dedicated track car.
Mods: 1/2 roll cage, MCA Race Prime coilovers, full exhaust, ECU tune, race seat, stripped interior and RX7 FD 16" wheels running AD050 215/50/16.
First day at South Circuit Eastern creek it did 1:04.3.

It is significantly quicker around a track and easier to drive to the limit than the NB. 4 seconds quicker is a big change. The investment to both cars is maybe an extra $5k to the NC but it pays back in lap times.
If I was buying just one car I would definatley get the NC first. The performance from the suspension and the extra power are hard to beat.

[93_Clubman]

As a track only car, would an NB MX5 be pretty ideal?

If I was buying just one car I would definatley get the NC first.

^+1

[Dan]

I've owned an Evo 10 as well as an NC MX5 and have tracked both (sold both and got a 2013 Boxster S but will buy anouther MX5 soon enough..)

An Evo will definitely be the faster car but the MX5 will be a car which will be much easier to take closer to it's limit.

To drive an Evo to it's limit you will be doing serious speeds with a much higher risk of an incident and need to be a very skilled driver. If you aren't a skilled driver the difference between the cars limit and your limit will be wide and despite you improving your times the gap will almost certainly still remain wide unless you are willing to take the risks neccisary to explore it's limits (i.e. risk of high speed offs especially if you drive at fast circuits like PI or SMSP and seek out good coaching).

On the contrary the MX5 is a car which won't be as fast but will reward skillful driving and will be much easier to practice in as it's a slower car. In my experience driving a car to it's absolute limit is very rewarding and sitting on the tail of people in much faster cars with less skill can still put a smile on your face.

In terms of getting time in on track a relatively stock MX5 will lap a circuit all day and easily last 10-15 minute sessions if you have the right tyres. An Evo will have issues of overheating brakes/tyres which is why you see fast Evo's doing a couple of laps to warm it up, 1 or 2 flying laps and then a cool down lap before pitting.

Finally the cost of running an Evo on the track is much higher. The cost of consumables is more with more regular fluid replacement, expensive tyres and brake pads which wear out sooner before even talking about expensive diffs, clutches and other parts breaking which will happen if you track it.

If you get an MX5 I wouldn't ƒü¢k around with an NB, they are basically the same weight as an NC with an far inferior chassis with a lesser motor for close to the same price these days.

If you want to go FI for a track car I'd buy an NC, keep it stock or put a 2.5L in it, tune the suspension, learn to drive to it's absolute limit and then turbo/supercharge it after you've got to that point so that you can now make use of the power.

If you need an out of the box fast car an S2000 would be a good choice I think, killer motor and tons or potential but it is a bit heavier.

[Sirois]

Hi everyone and thanks for the responses.

To clarify, a track car for me is just a car that I take to the track (Winton Raceway) and have fun in it.
Non-competitive racing just for fun.

I was under the impression the NC was criticized for gaining weight and getting away from what the MX5 ethos is, and thought the NB would offer great handling but with a lack of power (which is easily rectified).

I am not overly interested in the NC as for that money I rather buy an 86 as a track car and/or an Evo 6 (high teens).

How would a DC5 Type R compare to the NB?
These are pretty cheap too and can be had for 12k roughly and are almost track ready.

[93_Clubman]

rather buy an 86 as a track car

Re an 86 v MX5, have a read of following if not already seen: http://mx5cartalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=76908

[beavis]

This is my kind of topic. Let me put it simple and to the point with a list:

There is no other car that will be:

• as simple to work on
• reliable even at ten tenths
• cheap & efficient to run
• impressively faster than expected
• still suitable for the drive home
• quite so easy to drive, and so perfectly setup for track work
• subtle enough to not attract attention from the authorities even with a few mods

Downsides?

• Lack of power means you'll never out-drag another car down the main straight.
• It's not exactly 'cool.
• ...That's literally all.

Some history:
I've had about 11 MX-5's (I think, I've lost count) Almost always for track work. I've had awesome battles on track with Porsche 911 Turbos, Skylines, Audi TT-RS', race prepped Clios/Minis. I've often set faster laptimes than people in much 'faster' cars. Why? Well other than the dot point list above, the MX-5 is such a fantastic platform, and is often overlooked by the ignorant in their 'faster' cars.

I had a friend about 6 years ago who was certainly faster in their DC5 than most mild MX-5's, but at the time that was a $20k car with another $20k in mods from exhausts to coilovers and intakes... Hondas are generally very similar to the MX-5 in capability and quality of drive, but I find them at a different price point. That said, another friend had an old track spec EG Civic that was always a blast to see out on track, albeit not quite as fast as my NB, but usually pretty close.

Feel free to ask any specific questions or detail what exactly you have in mind.

And, you don't need mods/power to have fun. Case in point, my red NA6 is more or less a fairly standard-ish car, and still a blast to drive. Proof of that:

[Sirois]

Thanks Beavis,

My specific questions are is the NB chassis worse than the NC?
I understand these aren't fast cars but making them fast is not too difficult with a turbo kit so I am more interested in how easy it is to make them handle really well.


I really like the DC5 Type R in terms of how it looks, I'd really like to have a K20 motor to drive/play with but as you mentioned it's the bang for buck value, in the end it is a lot of money for a FWD car especially if you consider a DC5R with turbo conversion will cost more than an Evo 6.

How much of an issue is it that the car is a soft top, and do hard tops add to chassis rigidity?

Also, if one was to go for an NB as a track toy, would it be best to start with a turbo model or get a normal one and then add a turbo kit to them?

[Magpie]

And, you don't need mods/power to have fun. Case in point, my red NA6 is more or less a fairly standard-ish car, and still a blast to drive.

I should make the trip south so you can test drive mine and give some advice! Phillip Is is on my bucket list...

[Lokiel]

[quote="Sirois"]Thanks Beavis,

Q: My specific questions are is the NB chassis worse than the NC?
A: Yes, chassis twist is an issue with the NA/NBs that was addressed in the NC - I have an SE with an MX5 Plus roll bar with (built-in torque box), FM frame rails, Boss Frog frog arms and a 3-point Carbing front strut brace and even NitroDann commented on how stiff the chassis was when he put it on his jackstands (the car will pivot on the diagonal jackstands if the other 2 aren't wound up enough - or you have pin jackstands and the floor is not level).
ie. Chassis twist is an issue that can be addressed with add-ons that you'll probably install anyway (roll bar + frame rails).

FYI: There are different schools of thought regarding how much stiffness a roll bar adds. The MX5 Plus roll bar with its built-in torque box made a huge difference in my SE which has the most chassis bracing of all NA/NBs from the factory. When I picked the car up after the installation, from a standing start, pulling out of the driveway and slowly turning right felt different immediately, MUCH firmer, as did the first roundabout.

Front strut braces are another bone of contention which I can't argue "for or against" since my car has always had one in some form.
Mazda added them to the later NBs so there's that point (they also put 17" rims on the SE which was insane and purely a marketing decision so maybe the front strut brace was a marketing decision too since many other cars have them too?).

Q: How much of an issue is it that the car is a soft top, and do hard tops add to chassis rigidity?
A: The hardtop is fibre-glass so adds no chassis rigidity - it does sound quieter though which many, including myself initially, thought made it seem to add to rigidness (throw the car around violently and you'll realise it's not doing much).

You'll want a hardtop if you get serious but top-down or soft-top is fine for weekend "track-hacks".

The hard top really comes into its own when it's pissing down with rain - the wrap-around window provides about 400% more visibility than the soft-top.

Get the MX5-Plus roll bar for chassis rigidity since you'll need a rollbar anyway.

Q: Also, if one was to go for an NB as a track toy, would it be best to start with a turbo model or get a normal one and then add a turbo kit to them?
A: Start with a N/A NB, learn to drive it fast and address brake and suspension issues as you need to; then turbo the car (I feel like the world's biggest hypocrite as I write this). Do LOTs of research on this so that you don't end up wasting money on combinations that don't work together - change one component and something else gets impacted - it seems like an endless progress to get right so see what others use effectively and save time/$$$/effort/frustration. Don't "cheap-out" either, you'll end up replacing dodgy components with decent ones.

The SP is really a collectors car so you'll pay more for it and shouldn't really mod it for "MOAR POWA" - and yes, you will want "MOAR POWA" from the SP at some point since it's not that quick.

The SE is the best of the NBs (more bracing, LSD) but has a half-arsed turbo set-up and shitty 17" boat anchors.
You can get 135rwkw easily/cheaply with a CAI upgrade and bumping boost to 10-12psi with a MBC which is a lot of fun - this is how the car SHOULD have come from the factory, they would have sold MANY more. This is where sensible modders should stop modding the SE, after this it makes more sense economically to have started with a N/A car.
More than this the OEM ECU can't handle and the car runs like crap so you'll need an aftermarket ECU (there are band-aid modz but the car runs like crap until warmed up).
You can get 150rwkw on the OEM turbo with ECU, intake, exhaust, injectors and aftermarket ECU but that's about the limit.

If you want "MOAR POWA" (and most people do), you'll end up replacing everything in the SE with aftermarket parts and you'll realise that it would have been MUCH cheaper to have bought a N/A NB in the first place. For the initial cost of the SE, you could have bought a N/A NB and had $3-5000 to spend on decent.modern turbo components (vs. the ancient half-arsed SE Turbo, ECU and exhaust).