JBT's Max

[JBT]

Starting on Max's 11th birthday. Had him since new. Rather than hijack Custardtart's thread, here we go.

I got my PB at Lakeside on the original suspension with Whiteline adjustable sways. The change to Tein Flex Z has done nothing for my times. However, while the car feels just that bit flatter through the corners, I also get significantly more shaken about. Grip has not improved but the car doesn't have the 4WD look anymore.
Maybe I should remove the Whitelines, re-fit the stock sways and see how it goes.
I'm still not completely happy with the brakes. Started off well on new rotors (front heavy duty and standard rear) with Brembo pads each end, but the pads were off by day's end. A1RM time for the front I think.

Red_Bullet wrote:

A1RM did not cope on the front of my NA. Rear I still use them. The A1RM pads crumbled and broke apart on their first outing at QR.

I'm running PFC-11 (Performance Friction Compounds) from the USA. Not cheap, but work well at the track, work ok on the street, very progressive, kind on rotors compared to my experience with Hawk Blues. Not too dusty, no squeal. So far my favourite pad for road/track compromise. I have no idea if they are available for the NC.

[JBT]

Maybe I should try Remsa again. Never had any trouble with them but they were pretty dusty.

[Custardtart]

What’s the saying “brake pad opinions are like a*sholes, everyone’s got one!” and I’m no different.
I’ve been using A1RMs and haven’t had any issues except lots of dust. They work well on the street and zero fade on track but I only do Sprints so not to be compared to racing. They are also usually in stock and comparatively cheap. After 5 events and 5000km’s on the road they are less than half used.
Interesting what you say about your stock suspension with stiffer bars being quicker than the Teins.

[JBT]

I don't think it was "quicker" so much as the Teins didn't make it any quicker than stock + sways. The Teins definitely make it less comfortable and more darty (could be wheel alignment there too) and that probably unsettles me up by the Bus Stop at Lakeside. Maybe I need to harden up....

[Red_Bullet]

Maybe to need to soften up the damper settings?

[JBT]

I will try that. Currently set about half way. However, it goes from firm to bouncy in a couple of clicks.

[greenMachine]

I have just taken a set of Tien Flex off the SE. They are being replaced with a set of Bilsein PSS9s revalved and re-sprung for the (late lamented) racecar. They will be playing with the SADFab poly/bronze bushes, so it will be interesting to see how the springs, shock rates and bushes combine. I will report in my build thread, but probably not until the new year when I have had a bit of track time.

[JBT]

Thanks greenMachine. After discussion tonight with "the guys", I think I'll start with some semi-slicks and a visit to Accurate Suspensions for Ken's opinion. I think the set-up is completely fubar. Updates to follow...

[Magpie]

Can do a dodgy day to help with your setup

[Custardtart]

Thanks greenMachine. After discussion tonight with "the guys", I think I'll start with some semi-slicks and a visit to Accurate Suspensions for Ken's opinion. I think the set-up is completely fubar. Updates to follow...

Definitely second this. When I did the first alignment on my NC I had some very odd settings!

Ask for 1 degree of toe out. The standard car's steering is pretty light about the straight ahead with not much feel through the wheel, adding camber will help but once I added the 1 degree toe out it felt much better, weight and feel in a straight line and on turn in.

[Custardtart]

Here’s my current alignment. Running 12/6 springs and 4/7 clicks from hard, front to back I like it, doesn’t have any vices.

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[JBT]

Thanks for the offer Magpie and for the extra data and thoughts on front toe out Custardtart. I'll see what Ken has to say about it all on Wednesday.

The last to touch it was Fulcrum at Tein install. I think it might have too much front -ve camber or, alternatively, not enough rear -ve camber to match. Grant described exactly one of the effects I was getting - "squirrelly under brakes" - sometimes at the end of the straight and sometimes before Hungry. Quite startling when it happens.

Tein Flex Z are 7kg front and 5kg rear. I also have Whiteline adjustable sway bars set to soft front and mid rear - this worked very well with the OE springs/shocks. Still have the OE bars...just in case.

I backed off the dampers this morning and went for a quick run around my mini test area. I went from 8 clicks from full hard to 10 (out of a possible 16) front and rear. I noticed that the cornering attitude was still flat but the car felt less "frantic" or "on edge". Could also be placebo effect. I'll check some more on the weekend.

[JBT]

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[Daffy]

Can do a dodgy day to help with your setup

+1 for this idea- I’ll be up at Magpies shortly for the same JBT

[greenMachine]

I have not put any effort into fine tuning the Tiens. However, my 'go to' for the PSS9s is full soft on the road, and full hard on the track. That will, at least on the track, be tuned by backing off a bit at one end or the other, usually at the rear, usually in combination with a tweak of tyre pressures (my observation is that this is a much-underused tuning tool).

I would suggest that, on the road, a week's driving on a single setting is required for a good assessment of that setting (at least, that is what I require). Then make an adjustment, rinse and repeat until exhaustion or satisfaction sets in .

On the track, lap times and driver 'feel' are the determinants, my bias is totally to lap times, but others may put 'feel' into the equation. On the track, car nervousness or dartiness can be more readily tolerated if the lap times demonstrate the speed of those traits (or perhaps more accurately, the speed of the settings that result in the laptimes that are characterised by those traits).