MrTurkey's NC3 Track Only Build

greenMachine · Postby **greenMachine** » Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:43 am

Regie wrote:id be checking what kind of weight is on the towball with the car backed on. Thats a whole lot of weight aft of the trailer axle

Adding to this, that is a single axle trailer. They are much more sensitive to stability issues than the twin axle variety, ask me how I know this. As a result, I would not tow a car on a single axle trailer at high speeds (once bitten, twice shy etc), towing round the burbs would be different.

Looks like you will be doing a fair bit of towing at freeway speeds: if you must use a single axle trailer, invest in as much stability control as you can, starting with electric brakes (if you haven't got them already), and use them to kill any wobble as soon as it appears by manually applying the trailer brakes.

If you add some aero to the car, specifically a big rear wing, either take it off for the tow, or re-calibrate your trailer stability at a specific AoA setting - I learnt that a rear wing works just as well on the trailer as on the track :oops:

. Preferably take it off, as that obviates the problem of adjusting for headwinds/tailwinds, gusts etc. Sounds obvious, but I had to learn it the hard way, with massive instability of the towcar/trailer combination before I twigged.

I don't want to be a wet blanket, and I hope that you are already on top of these issues, but if not that is my 2c.

Good luck with the build, I'll follow progress with interest.

:mrgreen:

MrTurkey · Postby **MrTurkey** » Thu Aug 16, 2018 5:48 pm

Luke wrote:Also regarding AR1's, I should really put my review up. Was not impressed with them. Slowest R-Spec I have run. There are S-Specs just as quick. Hankook RS4, Bridgestone RE71R etc.
If you are on a budget and are allowed to run Nitto NT01's in the class you plan to run in, do it. Quite often they can be had cheaper(In Sydney at least) than AR1's and they are far superior in Wet traction, dry traction, noise, tyre life, pretty much every metric you can measure a tyre by.

The AR1's for me were pretty good. I had used them previously on my Golf R after having used Advan A08R's, they are a faster dry tyre. (got in the 1:39's in the Golf Mk6) At Wilby it got me 0:38.8773 on lap 59/60. My first time at the track so lots of learning still happening for me with the car and the track.

http://www.wilbypark.com.au/speedway.html
http://racing.natsoft.com.au/639039973/object_156778.85t/Result?1

I might try some Nitto's down the track, my 17" rims have the shagged 050's with no tread left now as well. I may replace these tyres with something that I can use to go after the 'Stock NC' track record at Winton...

I am in a mind to invest in some larger rims though. Is anyone running a 18x9.5 on an NC? Reason being is that I can get used slicks on the cheap and that is the same size a lot of club guys run on Skyline/Silvia/BMW (all with LS swaps).

Next on my list now I have a trailer is coilovers. I am heading to WTAC so I might see who has something on sale there (hoping for MCA's)

MrTurkey · Postby **MrTurkey** » Thu Aug 16, 2018 5:53 pm

greenMachine wrote:
Regie wrote:id be checking what kind of weight is on the towball with the car backed on. Thats a whole lot of weight aft of the trailer axle

Adding to this, that is a single axle trailer. They are much more sensitive to stability issues than the twin axle variety, ask me how I know this. As a result, I would not tow a car on a single axle trailer at high speeds (once bitten, twice shy etc), towing round the burbs would be different.

Looks like you will be doing a fair bit of towing at freeway speeds: if you must use a single axle trailer, invest in as much stability control as you can, starting with electric brakes (if you haven't got them already), and use them to kill any wobble as soon as it appears by manually applying the trailer brakes.

If you add some aero to the car, specifically a big rear wing, either take it off for the tow, or re-calibrate your trailer stability at a specific AoA setting - I learnt that a rear wing works just as well on the trailer as on the track . Preferably take it off, as that obviates the problem of adjusting for headwinds/tailwinds, gusts etc. Sounds obvious, but I had to learn it the hard way, with massive instability of the towcar/trailer combination before I twigged.

I don't want to be a wet blanket, and I hope that you are already on top of these issues, but if not that is my 2c.

Good luck with the build, I'll follow progress with interest.

Thanks for the advice guys.

I have electric brake controller on the car, I'll have to see if i can easily add it to the trailer.

I would have preferred a dual axle trailer but this one came at a price I couldn't say no to.

Towing with a Territory AWD Diesel, so lots of room to put other bits at this stage in the vehicle. I'll take the advice to remove wings and things in future for transporting.

Also, will check the ball weight with the car loaded when I get a chance. It seems fairly centered on the trailer axle at this stage. I"ll also modify a little to put the car on forwards (I would feel better towing this way).

lightyear · Postby **lightyear** » Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:43 pm

I have a single axle trailer. I tow with the big wing on and it's only an issue if you haven't dríven the car far enough forward on the trailer.

Luke · Postby **Luke** » Fri Aug 17, 2018 2:50 pm

MrTurkey wrote:I may replace these tyres with something that I can use to go after the 'Stock NC' track record at Winton...

Well here is your target time then for a 'Stock NC'. I'm from NSW so stock means stock.
1:43.139
Set on 26th November 2016 in the heat. Not on VIC website in the records section as I'm a NSW member.
Only changes on car were Tyres to Hankook RS3 and front brake pads were Carbotech AX6. Everything else was as it left the factory including slippery leather seats.
It was also the 1st and only time I ever took the NC to Winton so I'm sure faster is possible especially in the cooler months.

david_syd_au · Postby **david_syd_au** » Fri Aug 17, 2018 4:55 pm

MrTurkey, if it is still an option for you to change trailer, I have a dual-axle tilt trailer for sale for $2800, near Sydney
I has electric brakes, wheel rack, but does need a repaint.
I have used it to cart around NB and NC race cars for a few years.
The NC gets on with just the std ramps, the NB has a lower nose and needs a couple of stepping blocks under the ramps.
Let me know if you have any interest.

Also, re tyres, I have used A050 and NT01 tyres on the NB race car, and so far just AR1s on the NC.
A back-to-back comparison (same day, car, driver & conditions) of A050 and NT01 at Wakefield Park showed the NT01 about 0.8s behind A050 (in a 1:10ish laptime), and while I can't offer a similar comparison for the AR1, my seat of the pants impression is that they would be a similar gap behind the NT01s.

MrTurkey · Postby **MrTurkey** » Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:20 am

Luke wrote:
MrTurkey wrote:I may replace these tyres with something that I can use to go after the 'Stock NC' track record at Winton...

Well here is your target time then for a 'Stock NC'. I'm from NSW so stock means stock.
1:43.139
Set on 26th November 2016 in the heat. Not on VIC website in the records section as I'm a NSW member.
Only changes on car were Tyres to Hankook RS3 and front brake pads were Carbotech AX6. Everything else was as it left the factory including slippery leather seats.
It was also the 1st and only time I ever took the NC to Winton so I'm sure faster is possible especially in the cooler months.

Hmmm, this might be doable. My car is still stock, leather seats etc... (passenger seat removed for my fire extinguisher mounted to a flat alloy bar)
I need new pads, so that will be done soon and just got to find some equitable tyres.
I might be able to chase it down I think... We shall see what happens.

MrTurkey · Postby **MrTurkey** » Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:28 am

david_syd_au wrote:MrTurkey, if it is still an option for you to change trailer, I have a dual-axle tilt trailer for sale for $2800, near Sydney
I has electric brakes, wheel rack, but does need a repaint.
I have used it to cart around NB and NC race cars for a few years.
The NC gets on with just the std ramps, the NB has a lower nose and needs a couple of stepping blocks under the ramps.
Let me know if you have any interest.

Also, re tyres, I have used A050 and NT01 tyres on the NB race car, and so far just AR1s on the NC.
A back-to-back comparison (same day, car, driver & conditions) of A050 and NT01 at Wakefield Park showed the NT01 about 0.8s behind A050 (in a 1:10ish laptime), and while I can't offer a similar comparison for the AR1, my seat of the pants impression is that they would be a similar gap behind the NT01s.

Thanks David but I have committed to the single axle trailer.

Thanks for the advice too Lightyear.

For tyres I would love to see a comparison of the NT01 vs AR1 at some stage. The AR1 and NT01 I believe are similar budget around here.

Eventually I want some 18x9.5 rims though for a set of slicks...

Custardtart · Postby **Custardtart** » Mon Aug 20, 2018 12:31 pm

I know someone who went from NT01’s to AR1’s and found little difference, maybe a few tenths in favour of the NT01 around Lakeside.
Having dríven them both, they feel similar too.

Luke · Postby **Luke** » Mon Aug 20, 2018 12:50 pm

MrTurkey wrote:
david_syd_au wrote:MrTurkey, if it is still an option for you to change trailer, I have a dual-axle tilt trailer for sale for $2800, near Sydney
I has electric brakes, wheel rack, but does need a repaint.
I have used it to cart around NB and NC race cars for a few years.
The NC gets on with just the std ramps, the NB has a lower nose and needs a couple of stepping blocks under the ramps.
Let me know if you have any interest.

Also, re tyres, I have used A050 and NT01 tyres on the NB race car, and so far just AR1s on the NC.
A back-to-back comparison (same day, car, driver & conditions) of A050 and NT01 at Wakefield Park showed the NT01 about 0.8s behind A050 (in a 1:10ish laptime), and while I can't offer a similar comparison for the AR1, my seat of the pants impression is that they would be a similar gap behind the NT01s.

Thanks David but I have committed to the single axle trailer.

Thanks for the advice too Lightyear.

For tyres I would love to see a comparison of the NT01 vs AR1 at some stage. The AR1 and NT01 I believe are similar budget around here.

Eventually I want some 18x9.5 rims though for a set of slicks...

See link for comparison.
http://www.mx5cartalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=77004
About time I completed my review.

MrTurkey · Postby **MrTurkey** » Sat Sep 01, 2018 8:43 pm

Started stripping the interior. This may preclude me from going after stock NC lap times.

Feeling very inspired by our friend here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhWwl4bqeoY

Thinking more about going after BC Racing ER coils for my build.
Spring Rates:
F: 10kg
R: 7kg

I had these on my Golf and was pretty happy with them. Also their price point is pretty good. Getting an itchy trigger finger on this...

I can order custom spring rates too I think...

Custardtart · Postby **Custardtart** » Sat Sep 01, 2018 9:09 pm

MrTurkey wrote:
Feeling very inspired by our friend here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhWwl4bqeoY

That’s epic

MrTurkey · Postby **MrTurkey** » Mon Sep 10, 2018 7:38 pm

Weekend fun at AWDCC Rapid Lap Dash. This car is so much fun!

Custardtart · Postby **Custardtart** » Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:23 am

Looks like fun. Where's that track?

Is the car running stock suspension and what tyres are you using at the moment?

The camera is interesting, it seems to move as you brake, accelerate and corner and gives a real impression of being in the car - what type is it?

MrTurkey · Postby **MrTurkey** » Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:56 pm

Custardtart wrote:Looks like fun. Where's that track?

Is the car running stock suspension and what tyres are you using at the moment?

The camera is interesting, it seems to move as you brake, accelerate and corner and gives a real impression of being in the car - what type is it?

The track is at Logic Wodonga, has a pretty decent surface and is 1.6km of fun.
https://www.logicwodonga.com.au/tenants/images/Logic-campus-brochure3.pdf

Still on the stock suspension setup yes, coilovers are still on the cards. Looking into Shockworks at moment as they have their new NC kit for $2000. Options are for road focus or track focus tuning on these. These should be available October/November.
https://www.shockworks.com.au/

Tyres are the Nankang AR1's on the FD RX7 16x8 rims and they were epic last weekend. Probably the most fun driving I have done in terms of pushing the car around the track and having that corner grip. (My last car was the Golf R I mentioned before and the MX5 has so much more balance)

SONY HDR-AS50 camera (1080p at 60fps) was on a Gopro window mount stuck on back window, may have had some flexing going on but I really like the angle to see the track and my own driving going on at same time. I'll get a phone mount sorted soon and then I'll have some telemetry going for future videos. (Harry's Lap Timer & RaceChrono)

Cheers, Chris