NC oversteering / slipping problem

[bliu6757]

Hi all,

Having problem figuring out what to do to get rid of the constant battle to find grip in my rear wheels. Although I am liking the occasional power slides when no one is about, it is quite daunting on usual commutes.

The problem only arose after I had a set of mca blues fitted on. It has the recommended street set up (from my memory it’s 9/4kg front and rear). I have gone ahead and softened the damper in the rear and hardened on the front. I’ve also dropped the height of the car slightly.

Initially I had thought it may be because of the stock wheels. Which recently I’ve upgraded to Enkei RPF1 17x8 with 21545zr17. Unfortunately it is still wrestling with grip every time I try to turn a corner moderately fast. I have to be honest, the tyres on these are quite worn. However, I wonder if changing up the Tyre will resolve it completely.

I’ve read online that nc tend to understeer rather than oversteer. Also that it is not easy to cause the rear end to slip out. However, I’m having absolutely no problem in doing this (even with stock wheels). Therefore, I just want to ask the knowledgeable community as to what can be done to resolve this problem. Thanks all!

The recommendations I found online is:
- remove rear anti sway bar
- add a thicker front anti sway bar
- semi slick tyres
- drop the rear ride height even lower
- alignment (had one done before but didn’t resolve the problem) haven’t had one done since I got new wheels




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[NitroDann]

Changing damping has no effect on balance. You need more front swaybar or less rear spring/swaybar.

However, it's a known issue that many casual road car drivers are so used to an understeering car that a neutral car feels very tail happy. So.. It may already be balanced well and it's an issue more with the kinds of cars you are used to and the driving style which tends to come with that.

Dann

[bliu6757]

Thanks for replying dann.

Hmm, so I may need to upgrade the sway bar after all...

That could be the reason. But even casual turn speeds that my corolla could do around a corner, would make my nc slip out. That doesn’t seem right or at least safe..


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[manga_blue]

Frankly I'd start by simply disconnecting one side of the rear sway bar and going for a test drive. It's pretty simple to do, costs nothing, is totally reversible and might well work. You've got so much spring stiffness that you don't really near heavy sway bars to limit body roll any more. You should now just regard sways as fine tuning for front/rear balance.

[bliu6757]

Frankly I'd start by simply disconnecting one side of the rear sway bar and going for a test drive. It's pretty simple to do, costs nothing, is totally reversible and might well work. You've got so much spring stiffness that you don't really near heavy sway bars to limit body roll any more. You should now just regard sways as fine tuning for front/rear balance.

Yee I think mca also doesn’t support the need for sway bars. I will give it a go as it seems like it’s helped quite a lot of drivers.

On a separate note, is an alignment “very” useful in correcting such problem???


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[93_Clubman]

problem only arose after I had a set of mca blues fitted

Were they fitted correctly - see magpie's post on page 2 of following for correct sequence:
viewtopic.php?f=30&t=76994&start=15

[Snowmotion]

I am surprised by the spring rate you mention.

I got MCA Race Prime suspension for track only NC and they advised and fitted 12kg Front / 6kg rear.
The balance on my car is near perfect with just a bit of understeer. (I am thinking of going a little stiffer on the rear)

I would think with you would not want stiffer than 6kg rears on street car.

[bliu6757]

I am surprised by the spring rate you mention.

I got MCA Race Prime suspension for track only NC and they advised and fitted 12kg Front / 6kg rear.
The balance on my car is near perfect with just a bit of understeer. (I am thinking of going a little stiffer on the rear)

I would think with you would not want stiffer than 6kg rears on street car.

Apologies for the error in my memory. I have corrected it. It is actually 9/4


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[93_Clubman]

problem only arose after I had a set of mca blues fitted

Were they fitted correctly - see Magpie's post on page 2 of following for correct sequence:
viewtopic.php?f=30&t=76994&start=15

Also some other recent comments by Magpie & Red_Bullet on coilover setup on following page:
viewtopic.php?f=62&t=75140&start=285

[manga_blue]

On a separate note, is an alignment “very” useful in correcting such problem???


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Normally alignment is only a minor factor in correcting front/rear balance problem, unless of course your alignment is way out. In any case I'd always recommend getting an alignment first time you fit coilovers and change ride height.

[bliu6757]

problem only arose after I had a set of mca blues fitted

Were they fitted correctly - see Magpie's post on page 2 of following for correct sequence:
viewtopic.php?f=30&t=76994&start=15

Also some other recent comments by Magpie & Red_Bullet on coilover setup on following page:
viewtopic.php?f=62&t=75140&start=285

I am 90% sure it was fitted correctly. Also the ride height was adjusted as mca has recommended. Which your links are suggesting.


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[Odd]

What tyre pressures are you using....?

[hks_kansei]

How low is it running? you havent inadvertantly wound it low enough to bottom out the shocks, or hit spring bind have you? either of those will make an end SUPER stiff and jumpy.

Also check that the front/rear height balance is the same as stock.
When I first put my coilovers in (NB, but same principle) I set the height so it was level, handled sh*t, understeered badly.
I then raised the rear end a bit, to match the front/rear height difference it had from factory, handled a lot better, more neutral.


But yeah, check tyre pressures and check alignment first. They're easy and cheap to fix.

[NitroDann]

Im going with driver error still. That's not to say you cannot drive, but if you are coming from a corolla you have been lapping town in into a correctly balanced RWD then it's going to seem very tail happy. I remember a very similar thread from a guy who used to drive a forester (another understeer heavy car) and he blamed the properly balanced new car he purchased (a stockish NB).

Consider it. You have an understeer prone car which works best with trail braking and reasonably aggressive initial turn in which will understeer every time it is dríven as if it were neutral. Then you apply the same driving techniques to a car which is neutral and all of a sudden the car steps out nonstop. Thats because you are trying to get the corolla to step out using driving technique to stop it understeering.

It may not be this, but I'd put money on an NC with MCA street springs as per their recommendation being pretty balanced.

This is going to be exacerbated by running high tyre pressure for the car. I don't know what an NC takes but an na/nb is spot on around 28-29psi so if you have gone to the servo and put in 35psi or whatever the preset is it will exacerbate how oversteery it feels to you.


Dann

[hks_kansei]

Dann, also note that he says it was only since he fitted the shocks to his NC.

So i'm assuming he's talking about it compared to how his NC was previous to the shocks, rather than compared to his corolla.