When is an NA too old (or too high kilometres)

[Wolfgang]

I recently purchased a NA6 with 260000kms on it, 2 owner, always garaged, dealer serviced with no expense spared etc, etc. Unfortunately it hasn't had much love in the last few years and it shows, it's feeling and looking tired in parts. Price was right and it's completely original and unmolested. I bought it with the intention of working on it myself as much as possible to increase my mechanical skills and knowledge while returning it to it's former glory. So far it has been a fairly easy car to work on and most importantly, it's been a whole lot of fun.

So what model you choose depends on your budget and willingness to swing a spanner.

[hks_kansei]

I often wonder why people keep on driving cars for mega KLMs. Part of it is they reckon driving it into the ground before buying another car is a good philosophy.

Frankly, it often comes down to as simple as budget, and keeping a known commodity.

an NA is not particularly high maintenance, and most parts can be found relatively cheaply new, and very cheaply secondhand.


To sell it, and purchase a newer car, will likely require the use of finance, which will add to the annual costs (especially since for a used car you'll tend to need to get a higher interest loan), as well as the other cost requirements that tend to increase with a newer car.
On top of that there's the risk that you've just spent extra money on an NB that's not actually as good as the seller told you.

The other option is to go even newer, which means even more finance costs, and much higher maintenance costs since parts are more expensive, and generally the more modern cars are complex enough that repairs/servicing are often beyond the home mechanic, meaning increased labour costs.



Simple answer, not everybody can afford a newer car, and often it still works out cheaper to continue to use an older car rather than buy a new one every 5 years or so.

Plus, many people simply prefer older cars.
personally, I find a lot of modern cars to be a noticeable step backwards in visibility, and comfort, compared to older cars.
My dad's Subaru Outback (or Forester, whatever it is) is nowhere near as comfortable to drive as my Gf's 1994 Mazda 626, and to top it off the Subaru seems to be 80% blind spots compared to the old Mazda.

[Mr Morlock]

I do agree with HKS on some folks just liking older cars better. However most of the old cars around the traps are being dríven into the ground receive almost no maintenance and a high percentage are un roadworthy. Additionally older cars - and we are not talking for +3 decades are significantly more dangerous . The data is out there and you and your passengers are safer in newer models - thats not fiction its borne out by stats.

My point is that there are plenty of good i.e. quite late models and safer vehicles often with lowish KLMs and they are cheap i.e. less than $10K can buy some pretty good kit. You can pour money into old cars because labour and parts are expensive and it will not have much effect on the resale value. A mechanic told me the other day that people simply dont maintain their vehicles- engines may last for long time but suspensions as an example can be money pits. I think people just drive cars and then bail out and pay off another new one. I reckon modern cars are actually far more reliable than older ones and cheaper to run.

[NitroDann]

HKS:

I cannot stand anything newer than about 2005. By 1990 the engineers of the world had figured out how to make great reliable easy to maintain cars that really perform, by 2000 manufacturers have just added more BS like the TV screen on your dishwasher.

i intentionally buy <2005 Japanese cars.

Dann

[Red_Bullet]

My son has gone to Norway for 3 months, consequently I have access to a 2011 RS Megane 250, roll on the next rack day. It's faster than my 5, safer, stops better, goes around corners better, kinda boring though, it takes a little while to turn in, I guess it's kind of progressive, but once it hooks up it's a cruise to faster laptimes. At least in my NA ya really gotta work at it. Whats more fun? Fast or busy at the wheel? PS, look away for the spoiler, the 5 is more fun!

But the Meg works out of the box.

[NitroDann]

For the price of ten NA6's it would want to.

Dann

[Red_Bullet]

Not gonna comment, it's best to keep this little secret to myself in case I wanna buy one when my kid wants his back in 3 months....hahahha

Plus I dunno where you get an NA for $1900

[hks_kansei]

HKS:

I cannot stand anything newer than about 2005. By 1990 the engineers of the world had figured out how to make great reliable easy to maintain cars that really perform, by 2000 manufacturers have just added more BS like the TV screen on your dishwasher.

i intentionally buy <2005 Japanese cars.

Dann

I'm very much the same.

The newest car I owned was from 2002, and like pretty much every other "modern" car that i've looked at, it's full of single use items, proprietary fittings, and designed to intentionally be annoying to work on to encourage you to go to a dealership.

Example, the clutch master cyl died on the 2002 car. Replacement item was about $400, I got a used one for $50. Took me a good 4 hours to fit it, because it;s behind the dashboard and has a single line permanently fitted to the master that leads to the gearbox.

Clutch master went on my gf's 1994 daily. Replacement was $150, brand new. Took an hour to fit, including beer breaks.


same 2002 car, clutch slave went. Mounted inside gearbox for some stupid reason. Never bothered to replace it, was not in the mood to remove an engine.

1994 car, clutch slave went, put a new one in in 15 minutes, didn't even need to put car on stands.

[StanTheMan]

that so soundls like VAG, BMW or Merc....

[hks_kansei]

that so soundls like VAG, BMW or Merc....

Rover/MG

But they were owned by BMW at the time.

[Spac]

Our NA6 has 235,000km on it. Clearly has had a coloured past, with holes drilled everywhere, bad stereo install, turbo kit in a box and all the rest.

Faults worth mentioning:
Gearbox whines a bit, but shifts beautifully;
Smoke on cold start due to worn/hard valve stem seals;
Steering rack worn and vague, probably exacerbated by a previous owner fiddling with the adjustment, and coil overs.

I couldn't stand the steering, so have replaced the rack. The others are still at a point where I can ignore them.

[Spac]

More generally, I have found the MX5 pleasant to work on. Not as simple as a 1970s car, not as logical as a 240 Volvo or E36 BMW, but very few things to complain about (so far?).

Like most people here, I hate all of the electronic gizmos on new cars. I still clearly recall being in a friend's late model euro car, while it had multiple different warngs going off - sounded like a three year old trying to make dance music. I joked that we must be losing altitude, had located the enemy subs, and the coffee was ready, while it was time to get out of bed...
oh, and it was parked in my backyard at the time.

That said, our daily commute is on one of the state's most dangerous roads, and it is difficult to be complacent about safety.
This renders the MX5 as strictly a toy car.
For me, the sweet spot on the performance/cost/safety/fuel economy/ability to maintain compromise is the first generation Volvo x40. I occasionally get the urge to buy something newer, but am yet to find anything that isn't a worse compromise - this will change in time, but that's where it is now.

[NitroDann]

I borrowed my mates 95 Nissan Patrol to go to the snow. He had dailied it for a few weeks and parked it working well when it was parked, I lost the slave cylinder 50 gearchanges down the road.

I called repco, the next store in the direction i was travelling and drove it clutchless 40km to them. The part was $89 and I swapped it and bled the clutch in the carpark in <10 minutes with a 14mm spanner and an 8mm spanner without any help.

Try that on a 2018.... anything really.

<2000 cars are just better machines, better tools. Like my 20 year old commercial washing machine is better than a touchscreen samsung one. Sure efficiency has improved and the experience is nicer for people who don't know anything about cars but for a mechanical enthusiast the older machines are just better. They are tools, not toys.

Dann

[apsilon]

New cars packed with electronics aren't reliable. Every car like that I've had has had problems, fortunately under warranty, and they were all electrical in nature.

06 Forester had switches fail ($380 for a simple power window switch ) and air sensor.

09 NT Pajero you'd occasionally turn the key to start and every electrical item would shut down. Complete shutdown. Turned out to be a bad ground but took me a while to find and the dealership had no clue. Another time I braked coming up to a red light and ABS activated (this was rolling up to the light at less than 40) but no brakes were applied. Bit of a pucker moment. Only happened once, cause never identified.

17 Ranger when cold with steady throttle under 40 revs and tach would drop to zero for a second before returning. Fixed via a software update to the transmission computer. Currently does a thing were it puts up a warning occasionally that collision detection isn't available. Not yet fixed and won't be surprised if it isn't in the time I'll have it (lease vehicle).

Older cars only issues I've ever really had are dead batteries or starters.

[hks_kansei]

Older cars only issues I've ever really had are dead batteries or starters.

I had the CD stacker stop reading on my NB.

And the tape deck in my gf's car needs a clean since it's starting to stretch a few tapes.



My MG would go into limp mode randomly.
The sunroof would decide to not close since the sensor thought my hand was in it
the screen on the dashboard would have dead rows of pixels, especially on hot days
The brake lights would randomly stay on
it would randomly throw an "AIRBAG WARNING" alert on the dash while driving.
The cruise control would just turn itself off
while I never had to replace one, a single headlight bulb cost $200
It would whinge about the passenger not having a seatbelt on, despite there not being a passenger.