Higher end coilovers for NAs?

[Spac]

Picking up a few lines of discussion:

1. Dann's post bears re-reading.
The first couple of minutes in a friend's RX-2 rally car required mental recalibration - the initial impression was that it was too stiff and going to be uncomfortable. But after a couple of minutes, you'd realise the well matched springs and valving was actually very comfortable. It remains the most comfortable car with proper race seats I have been in for long trips.

2. MCA Gold is made by Murray and is unquestionably brilliant. MCA Blue/Red/X are made by Josh and are generally very good, but occasionally fall victim to Josh's drifting background and come crazy stiff.
If you are clear with Josh about what you want, you will get the right thing 99.99% of the time, and I strongly suspect that they will work with you if you are in the 0.01%.

3. I have MCA Purples (X-series) in my Excel and Reds in the MX-5. I am happy with with both of them.
The Reds are like the aforementioned RX-2, in that they initially feel way too stiff, but end up being much better than first impressions.

4. Don't underestimate a set of properly valved and properly sprung Bilsteins. While external adjustment makes fine tuning much easier, the basics are the same as the wanky, big dollar stuff - you just need to find someone who has the spec so you can avoid R&D cowts.

[Wivvix]

MCA are not made in Australia. MCA are assembled in Australia. Their website is adequately transparent in this regard. I wouldn't regard them as high end.

KW, Ohlins, Xidas, Fox. They sit much higher up on my list.

[Spac]

Whoa... As the owner of Fox , MCA Purple, MCA red and MCA Gold, I really struggle to see how you could ever rate the Fox shocks as "better" than the MCAs.

The fact that the MCA non-Golds aren't manufactured in Australia is not relevant to me - plenty of good stuff comes from China and plenty of garbage comes from non-China (or non-Thailand).

There are Ohlins and there are Ohlins. The real stuff is fantastic, but apparently they licenced the name in the Japanese market, and there is some very average stuff out there with the Ohlins name on it.

[Wivvix]

I didn't say the fox are better, I said the fox are higher up my list.

My post actually wasn't directed at you, but all things being equal it's inaccurate, if not misleading, to claim they are made in Australia.
While it might not be relevant to you, companies are often fined for overlooking this kind of detail, so generally speaking it's not a small thing.

If you've found good value in $4.5k coilovers that are manufactured in Asia (probably China or Taiwan) I'm glad to hear it. At that price point it's not where i'm shopping, but each to their own.

[RS2000]

MCA Gold are definitely high end, & I think you'll find they are Aus made.

[Wivvix]

As evidenced by what exactly? They're more ambiguously described than the other six products in their line-up. There's nothing stated that's even remotely precise as to manufacturing standards, quality control, country of origin or materials. The term "hand-made" is often used interchangeably with "hand-assembled", so the country of manufacture could be overseas.

Assuming you are correct and they are manufactured and assembled in Australia, this would still be a bespoke option that exists at the extreme periphery of a product line of seven. I'm happy to caveat my earlier statement if and when they are actually shown to be high end, but at the minute there's too many information gaps.

[Spac]

Ring Murray and talk to him. If you have any doubt about where MCA Gold are manufactured and assembled after the phone call, then you probably also believe that the earth is flat.

The Josh models (Blues, Reds, etc), have most/all of the hardware made in SE Asia - I believe Thailand. They are smart enough to keep the assembly in Australia so the Intellectual Property isn't 'borrowed'.

My opinions are based on experience, not internet cynicism.

For $4500, you would be getting Golds. Until you have dríven with them, it is impossible to explain how good they are. $4500+ for a set of shocks IS a lot of money and quite possibly not good value for money for most people - but they are pretty much essential equipment for a serious gravel rally car.

[Spac]

More generally: Cynicism is a useful trait, but be careful that you aren't just speaking nonsense. ;)

[NitroDann]

These days even $1000 coilovers are high enough quality to work consistently and last. The real money is in exceptional damping, tested extensively on a typical modified car which matches the model and lighter components in slightly better materials.

It matters very little where the tubes or shafts are machined and anodized.

Dann

[Wivvix]

Ring Murray and talk to him. If you have any doubt about where MCA Gold are manufactured and assembled after the phone call, then you probably also believe that the earth is flat.

The Josh models (Blues, Reds, etc), have most/all of the hardware made in SE Asia - I believe Thailand. They are smart enough to keep the assembly in Australia so the Intellectual Property isn't 'borrowed'.

My opinions are based on experience, not internet cynicism.

Yeah because the word of one man is as good as hundreds of years of empirical scientific evidence

Here's some free advice. Google the word "reverse engineer". Then add the word "china" to the search parameters. I'm fairly sure your position will change as to the reasons that MCA assembles their products in Australia.

[plohl]

....

For the OP
I have ohlins, a mate has MCA Reds - we backed to backed the cars multiple times on a twisty, and bumpy road. Same springs rates, same sway bars. I thought the MCA Reds were better, he thought the Ohlins were better. Given that the Reds are cheaper, and have slightly more rear travel, if I had to buy another set of shocks, I would be looking at the them.

I don't think you necessarily need Reds or Ohlins if you're not tracking the car though. I had a set of cheap AVO shocks from the uk on light springs, 400 and 250 lb/in or 7.2 and 4.5kg kg/mm, and these were still pretty comfy driving around on the street - the car still handled well.
For reference, the MCA reds will come with 9 and 6 kg/mm springs for an NA (higher for an NB I think) and the ohlins come with 8 and 6 kg/mm springs.

Don't underestimate the amount of difference a smaller sway bar can make to comfort in normal road applications. I went from 9kg/mm to 11.5kg/mm front springs and removed the 24mm sway bar and replaced it with the standard sway bar (19mm NA8), and the car was a lot nicer to drive to and from the track.
Given Ohlins would have been setting you back a fair chunk of coin, you could basically buy any of the other options except the Xidas and have change.

[plohl]

As evidenced by what exactly? They're more ambiguously described than the other six products in their line-up. There's nothing stated that's even remotely precise as to manufacturing standards, quality control, country of origin or materials. The term "hand-made" is often used interchangeably with "hand-assembled", so the country of manufacture could be overseas.

Assuming you are correct and they are manufactured and assembled in Australia, this would still be a bespoke option that exists at the extreme periphery of a product line of seven. I'm happy to caveat my earlier statement if and when they are actually shown to be high end, but at the minute there's too many information gaps.

You won't find much about the "Golds" on the internet. MCA is essentially two different businesses under the same name.

The original is run by Murray Coote, who has a rally and suspension background, and went into building custom shocks for rally and race cars - more on his history here https://rallysportmag.com/retrospective-15-years-ago-may-2000/.
They build shocks about an hour north of brisbane in a shed. I have been there, it's a cool workshop. Go to a rally event, lots of cars will be running his shocks, go to WTAC and most of the fastest cars will be running his shocks. They weren't called Gold's 5 or 6 years ago, they were just MCA's. It's top of the line suspension and a set could hit 5 digits.

His son, Josh, started and runs the more commonly know, but much newer company which you have heard off, and been on their website. They sell the Blues, Purples, Reds and whatever other colours they have added now. Parts (but not all) come from overseas and they are assembled in Geebung QLD. They make good shocks in a decent price range. I know they've had a few quality issues, but it's a new business and from what I have heard customers have been looked after in such cases.

[apsilon]

Thanks for the input.

There's essentially no difference in price between the MCA Reds and the Ohlins. I'm giving the distributor a chance to set things right but if that falls through I'll keep the MCA option in mind.

Yes anything of this level is probably above what's required but in the scheme of things there's not a lot of difference in price so I'd rather have more than I need than buy something cheaper and end up wanting. I do hope to get the odd track day in but family work and other life commitments make that difficult.

[NitroDann]

I cannot comment on the MCa reds, because I have dríven them a bunch but paid little attention. I can tell you that the Ohlins are fantastic, I have noticed them enough to ask the guy what he had, a few times now.

Dann

[Dan]

Coming from someone who has owned Ohlins as well as a set of MCA Red's and Purples on different cars, for street use I'd take the Ohlins over MCA Red's every day of the week!

Saying that though I think the Red's are overkill for the street and I'd probably buy a set of the Street essentials which use the same valving they use in the Red's and spend the extra $1,100 stiffening up the chassis or pocketing the cash if you've already put braces on the car.