Venturing down the slippery slope - SKYHI Motorsports SE

bruce · Postby **bruce** » Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:43 pm

I'm looking at those 4 tiny allen key bolts wondering if they're strong enough for the application? Factory uses a lot bigger bolts for that and I reckon there'd be a strength rating on them.

ManiacLachy · Postby **ManiacLachy** » Wed Apr 18, 2018 4:09 pm

TCR wrote:Yeah, I'm trying to remember what I'd previously done to my NAs to get that sort of camber. Might have to do some digging through old paperwork or threads. Ideally looking for about 3 degrees rear and 2.5-2.75 degrees up front.

I'm sure you'll do testing and adjustments and have your own experience to draw on, and I have practically none, but everything I read says more camber front than back is preferable. I think early on more rear than front was thought to be better, but since I've been on the scene it has flipped.

From 949's alignment page:
https://supermiata.com/miata-race-alignment-info.aspx

SuperMiata Dual Duty Alignment (cars that see regular street use and some track/autocross)

In general, the Dual Duty alignment is intended for cars that will occasionally reach the limits of traction and slide the tires but don't want to give up too much tire wear for daily driving. To reach target camber and ride height will usually require adding Extended Lower Ball Joints

4.5 ~ 5.25" front pinch weld height
.06 ~ .18" rake, rear higher
(Exocet - .4" rake, rear lower)

Front camber: -2.5°
Caster: +3.5 ~ 4.0°
Front total toe: 0

Rear camber : -2.0°
Rear total toe: + 1/8", .06"

SuperMiata Race Alignment

The Race Alignment is intended to win national championships. YRMV

4.25"~ 4.75" front pinch weld height.
Zero rake with driver and fuel
(Exocet - .4" rake, rear lower)

Front camber: -3.2° ~ 4.2° depending on pyrometer readings
Caster: ~ 4.0° or max available once you reach camber targets
Front total toe: 0

Rear camber : -2.8°
Rear total toe: +1/16 for <200whp. ~1/8" for greater than 200whp

SKYHI · Postby **SKYHI** » Wed Apr 18, 2018 4:26 pm

No you're right, I had them around the wrong way

I was going to do a search for the 949 Racing suggestions, so you saved me the hassle, thanks

ManiacLachy · Postby **ManiacLachy** » Wed Apr 18, 2018 4:33 pm

Ah cool. Like I said, you've got much more experience than me, so I trust you know what you're doing.

greenMachine · Postby **greenMachine** » Wed Apr 18, 2018 4:33 pm

I have a set of the ELBJs to go on mine, and I have the modded rear upper arms which allow the use of factory camber adjusters on the rear upper outer bush. I am thinking that will give me All Of The Adjustment.

:mrgreen:

takai · Postby **takai** » Wed Apr 18, 2018 4:45 pm

bruce wrote:I'm looking at those 4 tiny allen key bolts wondering if they're strong enough for the application? Factory uses a lot bigger bolts for that and I reckon there'd be a strength rating on them.

They are M8 bolts, same as factory. The size of the tool used to tighten them makes no difference to the tensile strength of the bolt. The only reason for the 5mm allen key fitting is to package them into the countersunk head.

SKYHI · Postby **SKYHI** » Wed Apr 18, 2018 4:46 pm

greenMachine wrote:I have a set of the ELBJs to go on mine, and I have the modded rear upper arms which allow the use of factory camber adjusters on the rear upper outer bush. I am thinking that will give me All Of The Adjustment.

Sounds like the ELBJs might be the way to go. Where did you guys buy them from?

What about achieving 2 degrees rear camber?

ManiacLachy · Postby **ManiacLachy** » Wed Apr 18, 2018 4:52 pm

I got mine from 949. https://supermiata.com/SuperMiata-Extended-Lower-Ball-Joint.aspx

I haven't heard of people having issues hitting mid -2*s in the rear. Maybe the adjustment in the rear has more room as is?

SKYHI · Postby **SKYHI** » Wed Apr 18, 2018 5:00 pm

ManiacLachy wrote:I got mine from 949. https://supermiata.com/SuperMiata-Extended-Lower-Ball-Joint.aspx

I haven't heard of people having issues hitting mid -2*s in the rear. Maybe the adjustment in the rear has more room as is?

949 Ship to Australia?

ManiacLachy · Postby **ManiacLachy** » Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:23 am

949 have shipped to me many times big and small, no issues, coilovers, springs, endlinks, swaybar, ball joints, camber bolts.

The only shop I've found that doesn't is Goodwin Racing, for some reason.

Note, I think Bauer have released a newer version of the ELBJs, it's replaced the old version so what ever you order now will be slightly different to what I got a few months back. I think the newer version is meant to be stronger. I don't think geometry has changed.

rascal · Postby **rascal** » Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:53 am

ManiacLachy wrote:The only shop I've found that doesn't is Goodwin Racing, for some reason..

Goodwin stopped shipping when they established an Australian distributor, so direct everything through them.
Unfortunately this just meant it went from a quick 4-5 day turnaround and website prices when direct from Goodwin, to 3 mth waits (as oz distrib never has stock) and significantly higher prices.
If same Items are available from eg 949 or other us retailers then it’s significantly faster and much cheaper to go with them instead.

SKYHI · Postby **SKYHI** » Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:24 am

I saw the Bauer versions when I was did a search. I thought they were a copy of the Supermiata ones that had been produced and then sold through other companies such as Good win.

Thanks for the info guys.

takai · Postby **takai** » Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:43 pm

ManiacLachy wrote:949 have shipped to me many times big and small, no issues, coilovers, springs, endlinks, swaybar, ball joints, camber bolts.

The only shop I've found that doesn't is Goodwin Racing, for some reason.

Note, I think Bauer have released a newer version of the ELBJs, it's replaced the old version so what ever you order now will be slightly different to what I got a few months back. I think the newer version is meant to be stronger. I don't think geometry has changed.

Geo hasnt changed, but the location of the stamp is different. Ill check mine when i get home and see where the new stamp is. Slightly thicker around some ribs too, but that is hard to differentiate without two side by side.

SKYHI · Postby **SKYHI** » Fri Jun 01, 2018 11:21 am

Finally got around to installing the six point harness. Grabbed some 75 x 50 x 3mm plates from the local steel mob down the road to use as backing plates for the eye bolts, and everything else was pretty straight forward. Still a few things to tidy up this weekend before our first Time Attack event at Lakeside next weekend.

greenMachine · Postby **greenMachine** » Fri Jun 01, 2018 11:58 am

SKYHI wrote:I saw the Bauer versions when I was did a search. I thought they were a copy of the Supermiata ones that had been produced and then sold through other companies such as Good win.

Thanks for the info guys.

AIUI, they all are Bauer. There were some apparently isolated wear (I think) issues with the first ones (which I have :roll:

), and the new ones are supposed to be stronger. I agree with Rascal, shopping around is quicker and cheaper, I don't think GWR have many exclusive products.

Car is looking nice! Are you planning any rear aero? Are the regs you are running the WTAC regs we use here in the TA classes in Supersprints?

I haven't run a gauge over it, but to my eye the front bumper is the WTAC reference, not the bottom lip. I will be building a ply splitter, but first I need to get the reference surface right. I will building to the maximum width (bodywork over front wheel centre line IIRC) with a deflector in front of the tyre, and planning to make it removable for ease of trailering if for no other reason.

I found the SE rear spoiler surprisingly effective at high speed, noticeably reducing lift and associated twitchiness through T1 at SMP. Your front lip, modest though it is, will shift the aero balance forward, so be prepared for a lively rear end through any fast stuff :shock:

Have fun!