Bauer extended lower ball joints

pdsman53 · Postby **pdsman53** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:25 pm

1994 NA8 Clubman.
A Track Car (road registered).
A recent alignment...increased Camber (Rear) and Toe (F) -NEG (instead of +POS)....provided a 2 tenths PB, at Wakefield...so that's good.

However, at the previous 2017 SMSP (Amaroo) events...on the old settings, the car was "OK"....a little twitchy (over the top) and understeered into the downhill 'fish-hook' (somebody following, had a much better setup)....hopefully the new alignment may help.

In the meantime, I bought a pair of 'Bauer' extended lower ball joints (ELBJ)...to obtain more Camber, to hopefully help on the twisty stuff at SMSP.

I have just installed them....lots more neg camber!!
The advertising states...they can be installed without realignment....so I figured, use them at SMSP and go back to the OEMs for Wakefield.

However...with all that extra camber, it feels very very "squirrely" on the road....downright dangerous.
Obviously at track speeds, it should do what it is supposed to do....but I also need to get it to the track (without a trailer).

Does anyone have any advice?

RS2000 · Postby **RS2000** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 4:01 pm

Have you re-adjusted the toe after fitting the extended ball joints?

ManiacLachy · Postby **ManiacLachy** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 4:17 pm

Like RS2000 said, your toe in is probably increased massively. You should be able to adjust that back out by hand with the aid of a measuring tape, whether it's enough to then be driveable is up to you.

I have a set of these on the shelf waiting to go in shortly, and the only driving I plan to do after the install is go straight to the alignment rack!

rascal · Postby **rascal** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:56 pm

pdsman53 wrote:The advertising states...they can be installed without realignment....

A bit of a play on words. Technically yes you can change from road and track camber settings without touching the eccentric adjusters, but you still need to wind the tie rod ends in/out to suit...

pdsman53 · Postby **pdsman53** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:11 pm

My alignment guy is a nice guy, but I was trying to avoid giving him $100, each time I install/uninstall the ELBJs.
Thanks.

RS2000 · Postby **RS2000** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:22 pm

Also, I'd advise checking how much tie rod thread engagement you have after removing all that toe in.

Luke · Postby **Luke** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:18 pm

Marketing...
Changing lower ball joints is not something I would be wanting to do every other day between different tracks.
Unbolting the lower ball joint out requires time and effort as I'm you already know assuming you installed these yourself.

I gather this is a road car since you are driving to the the track.
It would have to be a prety serious track car if you are thinking of altering an alignment that much between tracks.
Just put the things in, get an alignment done and stick with it for all tracks.

For reference I run around -3 to 3-.25 degrees up front on my NB.
It is rubbish to drive on the road, it follows every little ripple.
But it is failry good on track. I don't have stiff enough springs, but compromises have to be made for a road/track car.

Red_Bullet · Postby **Red_Bullet** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:29 pm

RS2000 wrote:Also, I'd advise checking how much tie rod thread engagement you have after removing all that toe in.

Note!

pdsman53 · Postby **pdsman53** » Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:18 pm

RS2000,
Thanks for the highlighted Note!!!
With the 'backyard' stringline method of aligning the Toe (In 0.5-1.0mm)...I found that the drivers side tie rod thread engagement was about 5mm less than the passengers side....(which means maybe 15mm engagement on the drivers side..doh!!)....I'll need to keep it on the 'black' bit, so I don't stress them....it's a long walk home.

Luke,
You're right....once installed, leave the ELBJs on....too much 'mucking' about.
I'm hopeful that a couple of extra * camber will transform 'my' SMSP....but I'm not sure about Wakefield (it 'flows' so well).
However, I will drive to Wakefield/SMSP on 'roadies' and swap when I get there.

Rascal/red_bullet,
thanks for your input as well.

I saw a 'post' from a while back where someone was questioning Bauer, why they didn't manufacture extended tie rods....I would have thought that it was a 'given'....but they have 1000 pairs running in the states with no issues.
I took it for a test drive...there is a very slight left side 'pull' on normal roads (could be bitumen 'crowning'), but it wasn't tugging left under brakes....it did feel good on the twisty bits with the extra camber....but that's at low speed...the coming track day will tell.
The race tyres have only got a couple more track days left in them, so I think I will hammer them....and then visit my friendly alignment guy when I get the new 'boots'.

I'll let you know the outcome, in due course....are you guys running any of the MX5 track days this year??

ManiacLachy · Postby **ManiacLachy** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:04 am

Regarding tie rod ends, you could pick up some R-Package ones, they came on a special edition and are designed to work at lower ride heights to reduce bump steer. They aren't "extended", but maybe their setup for lower heights will allow for more engagement?

I picked some up from Amayama, they took quite a while to come in so don't expect a quick turn around. I haven't installed them yet, will be doing it at the same time as a bushing swap to poly w/ SADFab bearings, bauer ELBJ and stiffer springs.

Check out RevLimiter's install and review.
http://revlimiter.net/blog/2011/03/tie-rod-end-swap/