ND battery under-spec'd?

[Mr Morlock]

I would argue and feel absolutely confident that modern cars save lives . New cars in Vic now have to be fitted with electronic skid control and many vehicles now have good cameras, lane departure , blind spot , everyone has abs. The cross section of drivers tell us that many are very poor at car control or competence. That can happen merely through getting older- slower reflexes, poor eyesight , rarely driving at night, medications illness , distractions including phones and any help that motorists can get is good for all of us. No argument at all about ABS- a bloody great innovation and feather braking sounded good but the average punter would still just slam the anchors in an emergency and lose control.

[RBH58]

I can’t assess and change my brake pedal pressure 100 times a second much less control the brake pressure of each individual wheel. NOBODY can. I don’t care how good you think you are.

[greenMachine]

Indeed.

When I did my OLT with Peter Findlay it was wet (Oran Park short circuit). There was a Golf R32 there, that just aced the brake and turn test at what was a dizzying speed. Meanwhile I, every time, locked up and sailed through the imaginary wall. I had to slow to a crawl, probably half the speed of the R32 (it seemed) to make it through. Very instructive!

Needless to say, when we did our mock (?) race, the R32 just disappeared into the distance.

[Rocky]

I was not including ABS in my list of unnecessary electronic gimmicks, however I will say that I have never had ABS kick in in all the time I have had ABS equipped cars. I don't recall ever having to hit the brakes that hard in 48 years of driving. I tend to rely on being alert - a forgotten technique, I know.
I totally understand however, that a big proportion of the nongs out there will need ABS daily.
I would like to think that 'lane change', blind-spot', etc would stop someone crashing into me but a lot of the nongs referred to above would ignore it anyhow or respond too slowly.
MM - I find the most dangerous category of driver is not the old folks like us (who stand out like the proverbial) but the impatient, entitled young females and male Tradies in work utes.
I will be dead before any significant proportion of the incompetents are driving cars equipped with all this stuff anyhow, so it won't make much difference to me, except buying my next car more difficult. Guess I will just have to continue to rely on my defensive driving skills - as I have for the last 48 years.

[madmort]

I was not including ABS in my list of unnecessary electronic gimmicks, -

a however I will say that I have never had ABS kick in in all the time I have had ABS equipped cars. I don't recall ever having to hit the brakes that hard in 48 years of driving. I tend to rely on being alert forgotten technique, I know.

I totally understand however, that a big proportion of the nongs out there will need ABS daily.
I would like to think that 'lane change', blind-spot', etc would stop someone crashing into me but a lot of the nongs referred to above would ignore it anyhow or respond too slowly.
MM - I find the most dangerous category of driver is not the old folks like us (who stand out like the proverbial) but the impatient, entitled young females and male Tradies in work utes.
I will be dead before any significant proportion of the incompetents are driving cars equipped with all this stuff anyhow, so it won't make much difference to me, except buying my next car more difficult. Guess I will just have to continue to rely on my defensive driving skills - as I have for the last 48 years.

Being alert sometimes just won't help, last time and only time my ABS kicked in was when a foreign visitor in front of me spotted an echidna on the Great Ocean Rd. He slammed the brakes on at 70ks for a look. I just stopped in time. Without such a safety system he probably would have gone through his windscreen!
I like ABS.

[Rocky]

Like I say, I don't have an issue with ABS which is a 'Primary Safety system' but it is probably not going to stop the tailgaters crashing into you.
The 'Automatic Emergency Braking' feature might prevent you running into the car in front in certain circumstances (like when you're texting on your phone)and it might even stop the tailgater running into you, but at this point you may as well climb over into the passenger seat and let the car drive itself.
No 'safety feature' or set of 'safety features' will ever triumph over human stupidity and incompetence.

[Luke]

How are we now talking about one of pet my hates in a battery dyeing thread???
Waste of time electronic gimmick driver dumbing down safety systems.
By that I mean the latest crap from the last 10 years or so such as lane departure warning, blind spot warning etc. Ie electronic systems which just get ignored by the user like an error showing up on your windows computer. Not real safety systems that actually do something like ABS, EBD, TCS, ESC, Airbags etc.
Oh well I have to bite.

I would like to think that 'lane change', blind-spot', etc would stop someone crashing into me but a lot of the nongs referred to above would ignore it anyhow or respond too slowly.

LOL. So bloody true.
Twice this week I have had 2 dopes literally just turn into my lane where I have had to brake hard and swerve so they did not hit me. If I didn't avoid them by utilising my eyes and wit they would have hit me in the front guard.
They both used no blinker and completely ignored me when I blew my horn and flashed my lights at them as they did it. They just look straight on and ignore you like they did nothing wrong or are just completely oblivious.
And the part that pissed me off most was both those cars were new and had blind spot and most probably lane change warning systems. I could even see the little light lit up in their mirrors as they came cutting across me. Makes me wonder if they even are aware of that little light in their mirrors.
So their useless driver dumbing down electronic gimmick system would not have stopped them running into the side of me.

I did trigger ABS, ESP and automatic hazard lights(useful systems) in one of those cases this week, but that may have to do more with the fact that my diesel Pug is so nose heavy a rear wheel just literally lifts off the ground under hard braking or steering input.
As far as I'm concerned none of those new gimmick warning systems that the other cars that almost hit me had can beat actually paying attention whilst driving.

MM - I find the most dangerous category of driver is not the old folks like us (who stand out like the proverbial) but the impatient, entitled young females and male Tradies in work utes.

Oh and yes one was a young girl, but was no tradie in a ute, it was a Toyota C-HR. Probably completely distracted by all those warnings popping up on her dash which she probably had no idea what they all meant. Maybe if she just had a look and used a blinker nothing would have happened.
The other was a you guessed it, ute.
As you say I do find the Ute drivers the worst as well, especially the one in the newish dual cab 4WD drive models. I would put a lot of courier drivers in Vans in that category as well. Been cut of many times by bloody courier drivers in a rush.

[RBH58]

Blind spot monitoring is kinda useful with an RF.

[Mr Morlock]

There are some pretty really silly things being said here. Of course safety warnings and better visibility are an aid to safety. Modern cars nearly all have cameras and alerts to make contact with other cars easier to avoid. The major features in cars - like abs and traction control make a lot of difference in minimising more serious accidents. The idea is to bring competence to the car and less reliance on the skill and alertness of the driver. Facts are that the road toll is decreasing and has been for some years and its not because we all drive so well.

[Luke]

There are some pretty really silly things being said here. Of course safety warnings and better visibility are an aid to safety. Modern cars nearly all have cameras and alerts to make contact with other cars easier to avoid. The major features in cars - like abs and traction control make a lot of difference in minimising more serious accidents. The idea is to bring competence to the car and less reliance on the skill and alertness of the driver. Facts are that the road toll is decreasing and has been for some years and its not because we all drive so well.

The idea of more competence to the car and less reliance on skill and alertness is scary to me.
I'd rather have both.
Sure make the car safer.
But I'd rather a more complete driving test that actually tests driving skills rather than multiple tests on road rules crap I experienced during my license tests over 10 years ago. The only time they actually test your driving in NSW is going from L's to P's and from what I remember they are more worried about minor rule technicalities than your actual driving competence. Some of my friends that passed the tests at the same time as me. I would say they are crap drivers even now let alone then, yet the government system deemed them to be competent enough.

I seem to be having more people almost hitting me than 10 years ago and I can tell you straight out why.
Bloody phones, GPS and car entertainment systems.
When I go in my simple MX-5, there's not much there to distract me. Simpler is less distracting.

But the thing I think is even worse is peoples attitude. Ie rush, rush, rush to get somewhere 2 minutes quicker before the guy next to you.
I have only been in one crash and it was minor one where I was rear ended.
Stuff all damage as it was a bullbar to towbar hit at less than 10km/h. Ie no insurance. Just a very small cash settlement.
It was a big Merc Sprinter van tailing me and I braked somewhat hard at redlight camera that changed to amber.
He would have no chance regardless of wether he had AEB or not as I'm pretty sure my Falcon could stop a lot quicker than a loaded van that was only a car length behind.
But if we was using his head and didn't have the rush, rush, rush attitude and left a gap he would have no problem.
I remember what he roughly what said when he got out. "I though you were going to go through". To me that was an attitude problem straight out. Last time I checked Amber meant stop. He was the one tailgating so his bad.
So where am I going with this. You can put whatever safety system you want in a car, but it is the attitude of the driver that will dictate unsafe driving anyway. Sure you could have a proximity alarm, but I reckon that guy would either ignore it or turn it off.

[RBH58]

Facts are that the road toll is decreasing and has been for some years and its not because we all drive so well.

It’s absolutely, I would say mostly, because cars are safer.

[Luke]

Facts are that the road toll is decreasing and has been for some years and its not because we all drive so well.

It’s absolutely, I would say mostly, because cars are safer.

s

Ok I can agree on less people being injured, and less deaths due to safer cars.
Its all in here.
http://roadsafety.transport.nsw.gov.au/downloads/crashstats2016.pdf

But the the total number of crashesnot accurate in these reports nor do they focus on it as it is a variable that is not well controlled. ie When that van hit me, that was not recorded anywhere.
We cannot assume there have been less crashes than the past because there has been less injuries and deaths. There also could be more crashes.
I only say this because cars are safer during a crash these days, so it is less likely you will get injured even when you do crash. So that would mean no data recorded.

[Rocky]

Luke is on the right track here.
"Road Toll" = generally measured as death from vehicle crash (Don't think the stats measure injury severity)
I would think there is little doubt that better roads and improving vehicle primary safety systems (brakes, tyres, air-bags, progressive crumple-rate panels, soft interior forms etc) have all contributed to a steadily reducing "Road Toll".
That's not what I am talking about. I am talking about the increasing prevalence of unnecessary electronic 'gimmicks' on modern vehicles that progressively de-skill drivers AND/OR make no worthwhile contribution to real (as opposed to imagined) road safety.
It is the way of the world. Manufacturers compete to offer more and more 'features' and gimmicks that pander to the laziness and incompetence of the masses (and their love of gimmicks).
We are inexorably heading for a world where driving, as we know it, will be gone and the only place you will be able to actually control a vehicle will be on a racetrack hired for the purpose. As I have said before, it won't affect me as I have at most a couple of decades left but it is a bit of a shame for those younger folks who enjoy driving and might have anticipated doing so for the rest of their life.

[StanTheMan]

Modern Cars are safer.

I dont mind the wissels & bells on our new car. SP25 Astina
The safety featuresy are quite unobtrusive.
I drove the Maxda 3 with a little bit of anger for the firstt time. While it is quite a competent car....it is still miles behind the NA6.

While the NA6 is miles behind in safety. It is miles ahead in roadholding . Handling & fun factor.
And thsts a 29 year old car.

Even on the freeway to gosford. The nA6 felt safer as far as it hugs the road handles & feels i know i would get into such a state wher id likely be loosing controll. But my NA6 is hardly stock
However....i know if it were to come to a high speed crash....id much rather be in the 3 than the 5.

If it was up to me....i know id be safer in the 5 without all the safety gear thats in the 3 but if it did come to the crunch my god. If it has to be......id much rather be in the 3.

[StanTheMan]

Unfortinately....we dont get the choice.....