Ghettobuilt transmission jack

[manga_blue]

Your Honour, there is no positive safety catch on the handle preventing release nor is there a threaded adjustment to remove the dangerous slack allowing the ratchet to lift out of its engagement. Lack of such basic safety mechanisms will lead to the inevitable catastrophic collapse of that stand foreseen in this scenario, a scenario where some of us could find ourselves brushing up against that fateful handle, fingers crossed its not one of us just Seconds from Disaster.

Ooops, I just read this post properly. My stands DO have a locking bolt so they can't be bumped and collapse.

If you do have these stands without a locking bolt then it might be worth while to check that there is not already provision for one there. Without them they're basically too frickin dangerous and I'd crush them and take them to the tip.

[greenMachine]

I have those red stands, in both 1t and 3t sizes. AFAIK they do not have locks, or the provision for them.

I am not worried. Because:

1. I generally use something (as described earlier) as a backup 'just in case' safety, always if working fully under the car;

2. I have NEVER had an issue with any of them (big ones or small ones) where the lever has been touched inadvertently that the lever has shown any hint of movement;

3. Even if that particular stand is unloaded, to get the notched shaft to drop, the mechanism is first required to lift the shaft a centimetre or so (more in the case of the bigger stands) before the latch clears the shaft allowing it to drop. That requires more than a passing touch, more a firm lifting movement.

My 2c: Use the best gear you can afford/find, use a back up sensibly, and get on with the job in the knowledge that if you get it wrong it may (at worst) kill you, or even worse, kill a mate.

Happy New Year

[97 MXV]

My previous post identified the death roll about two opposing load supporting stands causing them to be ejected and the car coming down on top of its victims.
Adding extra unloaded backup arresting stands to restrain the car before it rolls appreciably is an option provided we are totally confident they will not fail on demand, that is they must not fail to arrest the car at the critical time needed when they transition from unloaded to loaded while people are under the car.

Eureka we now have the smoking gun ! An actual event in a different but same context.



One of the forum members who I will not name, had a near miss years ago when an MX5 being worked on whilst raised up in the air, totally unexpectedly slid completely (yes completely) off its 2 post, 4 point style hoist like this in a death roll on just two of its supports (diagonally opposite each other as explained earlier).
It literally rolled and slid diagonally off the hoist because the safety lock restraining one of the other support arms from swinging out from under the car, was not functioning at the time (for reasons undisclosed). The MX5 was supported at the jacking points in a similar configuration examined in yesterday's posts.



The full sequence of events is not entirely clear but involved weight shifting back and forth between the unrestrained support arm and its diagonally opposite number exacerbated by removal and replacement of heavy items like wheels for example. In that process, somehow the unrestrained and obviously unloaded arm found itself swung out just enough to create a faulty support surface for when the load came back on (by say removal of tyres on the other side) just Seconds from Disaster.

Eventually and inevitability, the weight came down on that faulty support and it suffered a functional Failure on Demand by dislodging further sideways with no warning. The now absence of a support function from underneath, allowed the death roll to then run to its full completion under that relentless force of nature, we call gravity.

The helpless forum member could only look in agonizing disbelief as the house of cards came tumbling down with no apparent cause for the car to suddenly and inexplicably roll over and suicide dive off the hoist into such devastation and calamity reverberating all around him.

It was a wake up call to better maintain the safety lock on the swing arm and to always pre-adjust for even contact, all 4 support pads up under the body of the MX5 using the threaded adjustment provided before raising the car; then once in the air check them again for a nice snug fit up at all four points and check the centre of gravity does not move too far forward or rearward while fitting and removing heavy objects like transmissions and diffs, because our good friend Kyle sure knows how to lift it right !

[97 MXV]

When changing out heavy components on a 2 post automotive lift, that might shift the centre of mass too much front or back, Kyle and his boys swear by these thread adjustable stabilizing props. I won't call them stands, because they are too unstable or flimsy to be called stands.




I think it is better to do some sums to see if there is any need to play around with contraptions like these, as they might cause stability issues if misused.

[Mr Morlock]

97 MXV underlines the issue of care , safety back up and right equipment. These days tools / jigs fixtures / aids are much more affordable and accessible. Even on the "skate" used in the subject matter could be improved simply by having 2 fixed wheels so it steers with more accuracy - small issue and as pointed out it was used with safety in mind.

I must confess the 2 arm hoist would worry me as an amateur - but they do have advantages over ramp type units and are now widely used.

I think there is merit in buying tools esp when you are younger Or borrow or hire tools etc - many guys will happily loan an item to help someone out.

I have some axle stands which use a knurled round nut on the shaft which allows micro adjustment - these are probably still available.
The stabilising stands look very useful.

Interesting topic- thanks 97 for the info

[greenMachine]

That is a good point 99!!

I have had cause to lower a car and shift the hoist placement for better balance, it is pretty sobering for anyone with an imagination to stand under a hoist and think for a minute 'what if ...' , that is a long way for something bloody heavy to fall - and it is not going to just fall - as Keith points out, it will rotate/twist as it comes down.

There is little excuse for the incident described, either the screw jacks on each arm were not adjusted, or could not be adjusted. Lifts I have used all have a small amount of slop in their arms, so that even if the screw jacks are not exactly adjusted right, as the arms come up they move a few mm (and the vehicle flexes) to redistribute the load to all four pads. To have vehicle in the air with one or two pads floating ... I think I am out of there!

The matter of the non-functioning safety locks is something else.

It just reinforces that accidents usually have a number of causes, it is not just one thing 'that went wrong'. Haste/carelessness/complacency/poor maintenance, mix well and stand back ...!

[97 MXV]

Getting back to the 4 stand stand scenario, I mentioned earlier that in the old days we used to put two widely spaced stands under the rear axle and two widely spaced stands under the body at the front, often under the front cross member.

On my old 68 Ford Cortina with leaf spring live axle and front Mcpherson struts, the front stands went onto the widely spaced front sway bar mounts on the body well forward of the front axle as support and rigid roll stabilisation. The rear stands under the leaf spring retainer plate were equally loaded because of the rear suspension roll compliance. (The system was like an enhanced effective 3 point support able to accommodate totally uneven ground.
I did not appreciate back then how inherently safe and foolproof that system of support was. That system evenly loaded all 4 stands and completely eliminated any chance of almost 2 point support, and eliminated any chance of lightly loaded stands being dislodged or suicide handle released.

The live axle support back then provided a measure of vehicle roll compliance which allowed load sharing at the back and at the front and an extended lift with short stands. The wide spacing fore and aft allowed for all combinations of disassembly without a second thought.

For those who say they never had a problem then and believe therefore they won't have one now, likely will. That is because "30 years experience mate without a problem" to justifying a consistent behaviour for consistency's sake is risky if the very different and real issue discussed above fails to be confronted through deliberate adoption of a different behaviour.

Like our good buddy Richard Petty (oops not Kyle) says...we now gotta Lift it Right,



Particularly if we don't have friendly State Forest neighbours loaning us a spare home or two for the cause.

[shirtz]

out of interest, whats the dimensions on the trolley?

this bad boy is for sale at aldi on the 20th for $14

https://www.aldi.com.au/en/special-buys ... trolley-3/

[3gress]

The trolley is roughly 600mm/290mm/20mm and rated for a 200kg load.

There is provision for a locking bolt on the supercheap stands we used but nothing on them or in instructions to suggest use of a locking bolt.

I did whack a couple of wheels underneath when we got the car on stands but someone (aheem!) Instructed me to remove them.
Thinking back i remember installing door trims on a certain car teetering on three badly placed stands, only finding out after the fact!!

Not mentioning names

[97 MXV]

I did whack a couple of wheels underneath when we got the car on stands but someone (aheem!) Instructed me to remove them.
Thinking back i remember installing door trims on a certain car teetering on three badly placed stands, only finding out after the fact!!
Not mentioning names

The 1st stand lost its load and a gap was created when the other 3 stands were was adjusted to remove their clearance.
Seemed fair enough at the time to finish off on the 4th stand with a thumbs up all good with no need to recheck 1st stand before 3gress hopped inside and tipped the scales.



Luckily it was no consequence so we simply moved on.....Like they say in the classics....No harm done B2.

Now its 3gress's Incident Report above which now begs the question...How many more such inconsequential incidents of unintended motion go unnoticed and unreported ?
Case Rests for the Swiss Cheese Model of accident causation so dependent on situational awareness at the pointy end.



This is unlike my brain patterned good old fashioned idiot proof live axle set and forget car stand systems boys once improvised with bricks and blocks and anything else lying around no problem.
Live axle support was almost idiot proof back then; free of any possibility of 2 point loading latent condition as would be explained by Richard Petty and Russell Coight.

[97 MXV]

out of intrest, was the car on standard supercheap type stands? I ask because I need to remove the box soon and wondered if, even at their max height the transmission and that dolly would be able to slide out from under the car?

The car was on 4 cheapish stands under the normal jack points....ends up fairly low on such stands.....we were able to easily slide the box back outwards down the tunnel and slide it out sideways with bellhousing projecting into the wheel arch in front of rear hub and slipping under handbrake cable. The new box went in the same way in reverse order. Accordingly we did lift the box off and on the Ghettobuilt Transmission Jack under the car.

Rather than lift and manhandle the gearbox on to the Ghettobuilt stand under the car, it may be possible to save lifting on to the stand from underneath by suspending the gearbox using a webbing strap hanging through the shift hole in the tunnel. The pictures shows a box suspended on a 35mm wide strap to check out how stable the whole box would hang on just one strap before lowering on to the stand.
Sure enough it is well hung by the look and feel of it, being more or less under the centre of mass of the gearbox. The tension and springiness across the width of the trap is sufficient to naturally tend to keep the box sitting more or less horizontally. Pictured is a 35mm wide tie down strap but an old seat belt (50mm wide) tied in a loop with the knot at the top would be a cheap and effective strap in this respect.



So that leaves a challenge of how to rig up a some kind of lifting means on top of the tunnel.
Maybe as simple as another scissor jack sitting on the tunnel opening and the strap looping itself over the jacking socket which lifts vertically as the jack screw is turned.
That should be enough to be able to raise the box evenly enough for clearance to wheel the Ghettobuilt Transmission stand into place under the box. Then it would simply be a matter of lowering the box onto the stand using that jack until the weight comes off the strap.



Now this is all only dodgy theory at this stage. Obviously there are a myriad of issues to work through, but naming is not one of them. That's because the tranny will be so well hung by the strap on the jack, names which immediately spring to mind are...Jack Strap or Jack Strop.

[manga_blue]

Rather than lift and manhandle the gearbox on to the Ghettobuilt stand under the car, it may be possible to save lifting on to the stand from underneath by suspending the gearbox using a webbing strap hanging through the shift hole in the tunnel.

I've tried this. Too fiddly, plus it really needs someone on top and you get communication and balance problems. I reckon the ghettojack with three jacks on a trolley looks a much more workable solution.

[3gress]

When we went to use the Ghettobuilt trans jack the car was not high enough on the stands to allow us to wheel the trolley with trans mounted underneath. So we first maneuvered the trans under the car sliding it sideways under the rear wheel arch and then forward along the tunnel. With higher lift jack stands you'd have no issues just wheeling it under.
Keith is considering how to lift the trans easily onto the trolley in respect to how we did it originally.
I'd reckon with high lift stands equipped with threaded screw height adjustment to raise the car sufficiently high enough to wheel the trolley and trans under together would be the way to go. You could then safely lower the car over the trolley and raise the trans on the scissor jacks for alignment.
I have searched for stands that would be appropriate but have yet to find any however the only real problem we encountered with our method was maneuvering the trans under the car and onto the trolley. Not a major issue with two sets of hands but room for improvement

[97 MXV]

Too fiddly, plus it really needs someone on top and you get communication and balance problems.

Do these words mean someone is getting mixed up between Jack Strap and more familiar Jock Strap ?

[legume]

When we went to use the Ghettobuilt trans jack the car was not high enough on the stands to allow us to wheel the trolley with trans mounted underneath. So we first maneuvered the trans under the car sliding it sideways under the rear wheel arch and then forward along the tunnel. With higher lift jack stands you'd have no issues just wheeling it under.
Keith is considering how to lift the trans easily onto the trolley in respect to how we did it originally.
I'd reckon with high lift stands equipped with threaded screw height adjustment to raise the car sufficiently high enough to wheel the trolley and trans under together would be the way to go. You could then safely lower the car over the trolley and raise the trans on the scissor jacks for alignment.
I have searched for stands that would be appropriate but have yet to find any however the only real problem we encountered with our method was maneuvering the trans under the car and onto the trolley. Not a major issue with two sets of hands but room for improvement

Ive had this happen too. I put the gearbox on a sheet of tough cardboard (thin mdf would of been better) and dragged it into place. I then lifted the back then front up bit by bit, chocking as I went until it was high enough to get the lifter under.

If you have 2 trolley jacks you could lift the rear off the car from each side. I use the lower suspension arms to get more lift, but make sure you you have some spare wheels under the sill in case of emergency. Then lower back down once you have pushed the trolley past the diff with a stick. Its best to take the PPF out completely.

I welded some drive on stands that were high enough to push it under from the front, but it was too high for my "ghetto jack". I think I tied a rope onto the engine hoist and got someone to raise it, pulling up the rear while I positioned the bellhousing.

Light manuals are easy. A VS auto was a prick. Not only was it bloody heavy it needed plugs and hard pipes to be plumbed before raising, yet they dont come down low enough. And the engine needs to be tilted on a huge slope with a jack off the crankshaft pulley and the rear of the engine hitting the fire wall.