Daffy's SE

[greenMachine]

.. I'm soon to throw some poly control arm bushes into the mix.

Better to throw them into the bin.

I have run polys on the racecar, and that is where they went when I wised up. The racecar has delrin/poly bronze, amazing transformation, amazing feel and control. I have a set of the poly/bronze (poly with a sleeve for zero friction) for the SE, supposed to be better for road use with more compliance than the delrin. There a few mods coming (ECU, IC, intake, radiator) and these will go in at the end of that queue.

The bushings megathread on MT.net got it right - poly is just the worst material. I had to use a hammer to knock out most of the pins out of my polys, the lube just doesn't work. Seriously, if you haven't bought them look at new rubber, even the upgraded IL rubber, before thinking about polys, and when you have done your thinking, go back and think more about rubber. I'd suggest the poly/bronze, but I can't recommend them because I haven't used them, and I don't even know their availability.

[ManiacLachy]

Oh, I have the SadFab bronze retrofit, don't you worry ;) I've spent plenty of time reading the MegaThread at MT.net, it's very informative. If I couldn't get that I would have gone I.L. Motorsports rubber bushes.

[greenMachine]

Sorry to be preaching to the converted, I should have known better

[Daffy]

Alllriiiighty then..... the sway bars are in, front on the hardest setting rears on lightest. So far, wow- I can see exactly what the American means by go cart!
As for Nitrodann’s hotside engine mount, I’ll have to wait till Thursday. We need some redoing on some of the turbo fluid pipes and some other shuffling around, but aside from that looks pretty straight forward at this stage. More to come (p.s any more info on the bushes.... keep em comming!)

[NitroDann]

I drove a car today which has one of my mounts and i didnt know (I knew, but Id totally forgotten).

I noticed and went, wonder how it shifts? Really nice. Then i forgot again. I know It's my own product I am talking about here, but I guess we will have to wait for Daffys unbiased review.

Dann

[greenMachine]

(p.s any more info on the bushes.... keep em comming!)

Read the first few pages here bushings megathread, the point where the discussion starts drifting is pretty clear.

This thread has reviews of the delrin bushes and a discussion on the spherical installation in the RUCA-O (aka 'knuckle'). The delrin/spherical stuff mentioned in my posts there is currently for sale, but that is probably too hard-core for road use, hence my purchase of a set of the poly/bronze conversions for the road car.

I haven't seen much on the poly/bronze conversions, I'll have to write something up when I do mine unless Lachy beats me to it!

[ManiacLachy]

Sorry to be preaching to the converted, I should have known better

I can be a little obsessive in my research on these cars

For Daffy and anyone else who cares, briefly:
* Rubber is soft, low NVH and comes free with your car. But it deflects easily and after 100km/10years or so they could be getting a little out of shape, new rubber is expensive.
* Poly doesn't deflect as much, gives better grip and feedback, has higher NVH, however it can stick and squeak if not lubricated properly (and then sometimes it will still stick and squeak). New poly is cheaper than new rubber.
* Delrin is a self lubricating plastic, it won't stick as easily, it is extremely stiff, so even higher NVH, basically race car bushes.

The bronze bearings replace the metal tube that goes in the poly bush. The bronze bearing doesn't really need lubrication and won't stick. Now you have the stiffness of poly, but much better rotation and should provide the best of both worlds. Bronze bearings can also go in the delrin bushings.



The only problem is, SADFab (http://sadfab.com/bushingpackages.html)are the only bunch that currently make the bronze bearings, and they're a small operation and have been experiencing supply difficulties. Bronze bearings + poly gets expensive. I beleive Madjak has made his own, but he's a special breed. SADFab have embraced the open source ideology and provided all the specifications so you could even get some made to spec if you wanted.

I've got a spare set of control arms that I'm in the process of prepping. Eventually I'll swap them into the car and see how they go for me. Even though I have a fairly high tolerance for NVH and my car is already a bit buzzy, it may be that poly bushes are simply too stiff for me for the street, and I may have to look into rubber bushings after all. Time will tell.

I'll catch up with you when they're in and you can experience them for yourself.

[StanTheMan]

Daffy!!!!
I have poli bushes.....although I'm used to it now....You're in for a shock. I may be an old man in body but the mind is still very immature. Like a 19 year old.....maybe

I found on the NA the difference between 100K & 150k km wasnt significant.
Difference between 150K & 200K was massive.

Patchy will be back on the road prolly end Jan. Youre welcome to try her out maybe next time youre down here.
perhaps just try poly bushes on your sways first.

If I was to do it again. I'd go OEM. (and I was thinking that 10 years ago when they were installed)

One mans Hell is another's Heaven. Just like with tyres.

You need to try it before you commit. But Money aspect of it aside,no point me trying to convince you if you'll like them or not. You will not know until its either too late.Or try before you buy.
.
Its a shitload of work to reverse it if you don't end up liking them. Although it will keep you busy.

[The American]

Two of the greatest friends you have in the Mx-5 suspension are the camber gain as the suspension compresses in a corner and the independent nature of the suspension. The ARB fights both - you want the roll stiffness to match your tyre grip, because it is grip that allows the cornering forces to act on the ARBs and springs. Not enough and you’re on the bump stops (think snap understeer). Too much and you don’t get enough camber gain to keep your tyres in their happy place (poor grip for turn in - smoodgy understeer).

ARBs have their place in tuning/adjusting relative role stiffness front to rear. But you could also do this with spring rates (just not as easily) and with less compromise for the independent suspension.

Stiffer ARBs make each end ‘take a set’ in a corner more quickly which makes the car react more quickly, and feel sportier, but may rob some absolute suspension travel and grip.

The simple solution to all this extra roll stiffness is stickier tyres. And that is a very fun solution.

[Daffy]

Thanks for all the feedback at these early stages of my wanting to upgrade the handling side of things- so much quality info to ponder over (as well as more brain picking soon as I get my head around all this!) The bushes I’d say will be looked into further down the line, tyre choice availability may have to come sooner
RE diff/droop etc issues..... I’m thinking before long the poor old SE 6 speed may need to go for something stronger (I’m looking more and more into the BMW box replacement) and with that a strong diff to match. Slowly slowly- meantime NitroDann’s new mount goes in tomorrow, more to come

[Daffy]

I drove a car today which has one of my mounts and i didnt know (I knew, but Id totally forgotten).

I noticed and went, wonder how it shifts? Really nice. Then i forgot again. I know It's my own product I am talking about here, but I guess we will have to wait for Daffys unbiased review.

Dann

Ok, so Dann’s hotside mount is in; review time.
Install...
We needed to drop the sub frame and do some minor plumbing rework, but all in all the mount went in well. A check of the old mount shows that it didn’t have long to live!
Review....
The driveline is rock solid now. There is virtually nil play in the shifter, it snaps into gear like a bear trap and feels as smooth as silk through the changes. Combined with the PPF “ironman” brace, the throttle response through the the driveline is well and truly transformed, with the power getting down un interrupted to the back wheels and the car pulling harder on the gear changes without the previous driveline twist (breaking traction on boost into 3rd gear even with the AD08R’s!) just brilliant!
The slight NVH (noise vibration harshness) in my opinion is minimal- the problem child was already a loud rumbler, so apart from watching the bonnet dance a little more now when idling at the lights and having a light massage through the drivers seat- theres no issues there for mine! The “bunny hopping” when the engine comes off load and crawling through stop start traffic is now all but eliminated.
Dann, you have built another quality product mate!

[NitroDann]

What a great review thanks mate!

Dann

[speed]

What a great review thanks mate!

Dann

Sold! Now I want one

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

[Lokiel]

Please post your thoughts on NVH when you've put a few 100Ks on the mount; Blackbird Fabworx users report that it gets better after the engine "settles" - not sure if this is true or they just get used to the new NVH levels.

ie. Please keep a critical eye on it. A good way to do this is find some corrugated road and drive down it periodically, preferably with camera footage that records audio so you can replay them back to back later to compare.

Also, with regard to sway bars, the MSM/SE's 14mm rear sway bar is generally considered to be the best availalable for higher-powered NA/NBs so DON'T sell it unless you're convinced that the new one is MUCH better. Mazda put some big $$$ into its development vs some of the aftermarket bars (I doubt that they designed it to accommodate double the OEM HP though so that does count for something).

[Daffy]

Please post your thoughts on NVH when you've put a few 100Ks on the mount.........

Will do Lokiel, stay tuned

What a great review thanks mate!

Dann

Anytime Dann, just being straight up and giving my opinion as honestly as I can!


So.... as NitroDann’s race mount sorted the driveline etc, I’m starting to get more of a feel of how the new ARB’s have changed the cars feel when not moving in a straight line. I will definitely be hanging on to the MSM rear one for later down the track if needed, but so far (street dríven) the Problem Child is far more sure footed now (till now, aside from the Tein’s- the rest of the cars suspension is standard MSM). Finally looking into and applying the new improvements in the ride and handing I’m simply trying to work the cars power advantage “smarter not harder”..... its starting to feel so much more easier to drive. Still a lot more to learn from you wiser guys in the previous posts who got their heads around the ride/handling expertise- heres to moving onwards and upwards!
(My borrowed from StanTheMan signature quote is starting to make more sense now )