TEIN Flex Z - A good choice for a street NA?

[3gress]

I have Flex-Z, they're good, I like them. I don't regret my purchase.

But, the MCA are better, and if I was buying again I'd probably go for them instead.

You'd shoot me a good price for the teins if you did upgrade?
Anything would be better than the D2 coilovers I'm stuck with for now!

[greenMachine]

So recently I picked up a set of Enkei RPF1's (15x8) for next to nothing !

Say what?! Hmmm ....

These wouldn't be the Chinese 'Enkei RPF1s', painstakingly handcrafted from reclaimed aluminium soft drink cans by passionate 7 year old craftsmen in a picturesque back alley in a remote village ...

OK, jokes aside, you have an ... ahem ... interesting ... setup there. What offset are those wheels? I have a set of 15x8 6ULs, and on my NB they don't stick out like that, if they are 28 you must be running spacers?

That setup must pretty well stiff the handling and gearing, never mind the odd shocks' effect on the ride. I think you are like the man with the wheelbarrow - the job is in front of you!

Right now, I think you are in serious risk of throwing good money after bad.

My suggestion would be to put it back to stock wheels and suspension, learn to appreciate the delicacy, precision and balance of an NA, and while doing that formulate a plan for some well considered mods that enhance the qualities of the car; that will also give you some breathing space to accumulate the necessary readies for your mods. Stock-ish wheels, shocks/springs would be cheap to free from people who have modded their car and can't give the old stuff away.

On the other hand, if you are after like, yo bro stance! then you may disregard the above.

[hks_kansei]

You'd shoot me a good price for the teins if you did upgrade?
Anything would be better than the D2 coilovers I'm stuck with for now!

Sorry man, while the MCA are a better setup, they're not better enough for me to upgrade.

[Skifey]

Sorry for the delay guys, alignment report is below

And are those rears clearing? Are they rubbing as well? It looks like there is a constant black mark around the top of the tyre to me just above the Goodride lettering.

And now that you have posted those pictures I have a more serious safety question.
Are you are seriously worried about which coilover system to buy when you are running Chinese Goodride tyres?
I don't know who you bought those Enkei rims off, but I question why they would even think of putting such a cheap tyre on an expensive quality rim.

The rears aren't clearing at the minute - they're hitting the guard. You're correct about the black mark around the top of the tyre, that's where they're rubbing. However if I were to roll the guard properly to a 30-45 degree they'd clear it and likely not rub at all unless it's a proper big bump.

I'll just also add regarding coilovers that I don't regret my purchase of Tein Street Flex. Flex Z didn't exist when I got them. It was Either BC xxx or Tein Street Flex in the price range I was looking at, at the time.
I don't regret it because they suit my purpose. Road registered car with track work focus. We are talking probably 10 to 15 events a year in it.
If it was only a road car or I drove it a lot more on the road the Teins would drive me mental.
When I see a bump in front of me, I brace myself for the shock that happens.

Thanks the clarification and review. I think everyone's (yourself included) right in saying the TEINs wouldn't be good for my application. I don't want a rattlesnake as my daily. I'm definitely leaning towards the MCA's I think and if I do get them I'll write up a comprehensive review for everyone My 2c given back.

These wouldn't be the Chinese 'Enkei RPF1s', painstakingly handcrafted from reclaimed aluminium soft drink cans by passionate 7 year old craftsmen in a picturesque back alley in a remote village ...

On the other hand, if you are after like, yo bro stance! then you may disregard the above.

Hahaha! Nah nah none of that rubbish, I just want my car performing well but still looking tight. No spacers, offset is +28. I paid $750 for them from a guy running a Honda Civic that didn't want them because he wanted to upgrade to a "bigger better car" and naturally he wanted 18"s.

I have a set of AD08R's (actually 2 sets) that I could sell for $50, they are just road legal and 205/50/15. The other set I would not class as legal, same price. I have a set of 195/55/15 that are in very good condition that I could sell. I'm just down the road from Ripley.

If you get your coilovers I'm happy to help you install and set them up. Maybe a good time to do a dodgy day anyway.

I am in Ripley! and that sounds awesome, thanks mate! I'll send you a PM.

Now! It seems the consensus is that the heart of my problem is my tyres rather than my suspension... Are you sure I simply can't raise the car up? Why cant I just set the ride height at a point where maximum suspension travel is a few mm from the guards? I don't fully understand why this isn't possible. Practical sure, but possible? It makes sense in my head or am I thinking of it completely wrong? Amateur here
As for the chinese Goodrides; yes I know. Trust me, their existence is an apocalyptic burning pit of disgust and misery in my life. I was after the Enkei's not the rubber and I figured I'd just get a bit of use out of them before discarding them. So little did I know about tyre sizes, diameters, rubbing and all of the other problems I've never experienced prior to this
I was always intending to jump onto a set of Potenza RE003's just because they seem like the go-to tyre although they are only made in 195/55/R15 or 205/55/R15 and naturally I want to stay as wide as possible... because yes it looks cooler - guilty as charged haha. What other tyres can I run that are are 205/50/R15? The AD08R's Magpie's talking about is one option, are they commonly used? I don't mind going wider if that's even a good idea - like say a 225/45/R15 although again I have no idea as to which tyres are a good idea to use in that size.

[Skifey]

Oh my god. Kill me. My wheels are 15x7 not 15x8. I have no idea why I thought they were 8"! I'm such a muppet - sorry guys! This means as well that my offset is incorrect as I was going off the Enkei chart. It's going to be either 35mm or 41mm. I'll confirm that as soon as I'm home! My bad team!

[Magpie]

Yes you could lengthen the dampers or raise the height, it depends on what the issue is.


Tyres depends on what you will use them for. In 205/50/15 there are a lot of tyre choices https://tyres.supercheapauto.com.au/tyre/205-50-r15/qld/

This is the better set of AD08R's


The other set


I can post a picture of the 195 AD08R's or you could drop in and have a look.

[Luke]

Oh my god. Kill me. My wheels are 15x7 not 15x8. I have no idea why I thought they were 8"! I'm such a muppet - sorry guys! This means as well that my offset is incorrect as I was going off the Enkei chart. It's going to be either 35mm or 41mm. I'll confirm that as soon as I'm home! My bad team!

Sorry for the delay guys, alignment report is below
Now! It seems the consensus is that the heart of my problem is my tyres rather than my suspension... Are you sure I simply can't raise the car up? Why cant I just set the ride height at a point where maximum suspension travel is a few mm from the guards? I don't fully understand why this isn't possible. Practical sure, but possible? It makes sense in my head or am I thinking of it completely wrong? Amateur here
As for the chinese Goodrides; yes I know. Trust me, their existence is an apocalyptic burning pit of disgust and misery in my life. I was after the Enkei's not the rubber and I figured I'd just get a bit of use out of them before discarding them. So little did I know about tyre sizes, diameters, rubbing and all of the other problems I've never experienced prior to this
I was always intending to jump onto a set of Potenza RE003's just because they seem like the go-to tyre although they are only made in 195/55/R15 or 205/55/R15 and naturally I want to stay as wide as possible... because yes it looks cooler - guilty as charged haha. What other tyres can I run that are are 205/50/R15? The AD08R's Magpie's talking about is one option, are they commonly used? I don't mind going wider if that's even a good idea - like say a 225/45/R15 although again I have no idea as to which tyres are a good idea to use in that size.

Yes tyres are your biggest problem for rubbing issue which you now are acknowledging.

Now that we know that your rims are 7 inch, I would say go with the very common and cheap 195/50/15's. Save lots of $$$ over 205/50/15.
This will likely fix up your rubbing issues without even rolling the guards.
No problems running that size on 7 inch rims. With an 8 inch you would be joining the stance club.
Also RE003's come in 195/50/15. Take advantage of the 4 for 3 offer this month.These tyres won't disappoint.

The pic of your car just looks like the tyres stick out heaps more than a +35 or + 41 rim. The bulgy 55 profile tyre may be contributing to that.
Just for reference a tyre with the same section width, but higher profile will be more bulgy and wider. Not the tread, but the actual side wall will bulge out more.
Ie 205/60/15 wider than 205/55/15 wider than 205/50/15 wider than 205/45/15 etc.


Regarding your alignment.
First off don't get it redone until you fix your shock leaking issue.
They have set it up for road use regarding the crown in the road. Its OK but not the best.
That generally means a little more camber and caster on the front left compared to the right to reduce the requirement of steering right to keep straight.
I set my car up the same left and right because it is for track so I don't care so much about having to steer a bit right on normal roads.

Front settings.
First off they have given you more toe in. More toe in (more positive number) which makes the car more stable.
If it were me I would want 0.5mm or even 0 each side for the front toe. This makes the car feel less stable but more like a go kart handling wise.
Not enough front negative camber. Plus the difference between left and right is too big. They did reduce the left to help, but should of increased the right as well.
More negative will help with guard clearance and bring it closer to the rear setup
Maybe 1.5 degrees on the left. Your data sheet is using degrees and minutes so 1 degree 30 minutes. (60 minutes is 1 degree). 10-15mins less on the right. 1 degree 20 minutes.
They have reduced your front left caster. Which is OK because it was too different to the right one before.
Caster affects how easily your steering self centres.
If you have no power steering, the greater the caster angle, the heavier the steering is. Also the greater your caster, the less negative camber you can have.
So there is a trade off. Rule of thumb is 4 to 5 degrees for a NA/NB MX-5. Can be as low as 3 degrees if you have a NA with really wide tyres and no power steering.

Rear End
If you look at your before figures they have not even touched the rear end at all.
Lucky for you that the rear had a lot of negative camber already other wise you would have destroyed the rear tyres on the guards by now.
I would say there is too much difference between left and right on the rear. 10-15mins would be more acceptable, not 45mins as it it now.
Around -2 degrees is more than enough for a hard dríven road car. -1 degrees 30mins is more where you should be, but will depends on clearance.
You do want toe in on the rear. +0.5 to +1mm on each side is pretty much where you want it to be.


Now back to coilovers.
I think the same model coilover sits differently in a NA and NB in the rear end. Can someone correct me on that???
I think one sits higher than the other, but I cannot remember whether NA's or NB's sit higher with the same unit.
The front is the same.

Now here is the problem with Tein Street Flex, which is the same spec as Flex Z.
In my NB at Maximum height set at the rear, I am lower than your NA is now.
The biggest problem with that is the least amount of negative camber I can get in the rear is -2 degrees 10minutes with a sensible toe of +1mm. Any less camber and the toe just goes more positive(In).
Rear height adjustment is the biggest problems with the Teins on a NB at least. I can go 50+mm lower which is just useless.
The fronts have better adjust-ability range, but because the rears are so low, I had to match the fronts to suit.

Also, regarding setting other units up high to avoid guard rubbing, I don't think there would be many systems out there that would even go that high that you could buy off the shelf. Even with the standard suspension fitted the tyres push up into the guards when loaded.
There are a few ways to reduce the total travel upwards, but most will affect the already limited travel NA and NB MX-5's have in the rear.
Longer bump stops. You will feel every time you bottom out on them.
Really stiff rear springs. You would then need stiff front springs as well. This would be OK on a race car with downforce, but not a road car.

So like everyone keeps saying and you are acknowledging, tyres will be your biggest fix for the rubbing issue, regardless of what springs/shocks you fit to fix your leaking shock.
195/50/15 will solve most of your problems.

[Skifey]

Hey guys!

Sorry for dropping off the grid - had a busy few weeks. Just thought I'd sort of wrap up this thread for anyone that happens to come across it in the future and to thank everyone that helped out with input and advice

I ended up taking the car in and got a set of RE003's swapped onto the Enkei's. As soon as the car touched down again the difference was HUGE. Like VISIBLY HUGE. I've uploaded a couple of photos of how it's sitting with the new tyres but long story short - all rubbing has stopped. Even during sharp cornering where body-roll is at it's most hectic and I've got the wheels at full lock to counter the occasional understeer there is nothing. Problem solved fellas!

As for the subject of coilovers, I'm going to be trying to snag a pair of MCA's or BC's in the near future and I'll be doing a full write up/review once I do - my attempt at giving back. For the time being though it looks as if my rear shock, while it's leaking, is still within it's operational capacity so I'll just sit on it for awhile. Poor decision likely but ehh, time and money.

Thanks to everyone that chipped in their 50c and offered help, advice or knowledge! You guys are all legends! I'll catch you all again when I manage to f*** the next thing up and come screaming for help again