Robbo's Clubbie Racer

GR124 · Postby **GR124** » Sun Nov 05, 2017 9:52 pm

RS2000 wrote:
GR124 wrote:The book says to "turn the crank 2 1/6 times to verify the timing marks are alined properly"

That is after initially turning the crank 1-5/6 times to set the tensioner on the belt. There is a 'tensioner set mark' about 60 deg before the main timing crank mark. I remember trying to tension the belt without doing this step & it didn't tension properly.

I don't get it, I know the book said to that. It all looks good to me?
Anyways,, I may Have to take it off the engine stand so I can complete these steps? just to be safe,,, I don't know?

RS2000 · Postby **RS2000** » Sun Nov 05, 2017 10:16 pm

I can't fully remember, but it's to do with the tension on the belt (without the tensioner applied) between the camshaft sprockets, being different at that point, compared to with the sprockets in the position as per your photo.

RS2000 · Postby **RS2000** » Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:12 pm

RS2000 wrote:I can't fully remember, but it's to do with the tension on the belt (without the tensioner applied) between the camshaft sprockets, being different at that point, compared to with the sprockets in the position as per your photo.

should read "compared to with the camshafts in the position as per your photo"
I think the position of the camshafts with the crank pulley at the 'set tension mark', pulls the belt tighter between the sprockets.

GR124 · Postby **GR124** » Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:31 am

Hi RS2000, Thanks for your responses, I'll have another look at It. Like I said Im thinking It would be easier for my situation to remove the engine from the stand, hang from hoist and go through the steps as per the manual.

GR124 · Postby **GR124** » Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:07 pm

I unbolted the engine from the stand tonight so I could turn the crank 360. With it on the stand the Flywheel was fouling the engine stand bolt up.
I didn't touch the tensioner pulley, it's was tensioned and buttoned up straight after I fitted the new belt. I turned the crank 360 and some, brought it back to TDC, cams lined up, about 10mm of firm movement up and down in the top of belt between cam pulleys.
As far as I can see, I'm sorted.

manga_blue wrote:Looks like it's coming along nicely.

I can't see any problems with cutting back the plastic covers until you have just enough to hold the timing scale.

That coolant outlet hole in the front of the head can be blanked off with a 30mm brass welch plug if you're doing the re-route.

I'm not sure how your NB8A throttle body is set up. Most have a hot water supply for cold running management that comes from those little hoses running from the back of the head through the cooler to the thottle body. If that's the case I'd just leave them there or else just bypass the cooler but still feed the throttle body if you have an external cooler. BTW all those little hoses are a very common point of failure on cars doing their first track days. They must be in very sound condition. You don't need moulded ones. Just bulk heater hose from Repco works fine.

MB, I have the standard NB8A TB, So I guess I'll rout the water line back through that. After a bit of research looks like I need to keep the water running through the TB to keep the engine management happy. For now I'll keep the water running through the oil cooler I think. Once running I look at my other options.

manga_blue · Postby **manga_blue** » Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:38 pm

manga_blue wrote:I can't see any problems with cutting back the plastic covers until you have just enough to hold the timing scale.

I should qualify that. The kitty litter at Philip Island is marble sized piece of heavy quartz. Some of the other tracks are almost as bad. Following traffic after someone has kindly spread that on the track can be like being machine gunned. You may need adequate stone protection.

RS2000 · Postby **RS2000** » Tue Nov 07, 2017 7:27 am

GR124 wrote:MB, I have the standard NB8A TB, So I guess I'll rout the water line back through that. After a bit of research looks like I need to keep the water running through the TB to keep the engine management happy. For now I'll keep the water running through the oil cooler I think. Once running I look at my other options.

On my NB8A, with OE T/B & ECU, I bypassed the T/B, with the coolant hose going directly from the oil cooler/heater to the tee at the thermostat housing. I haven't noticed any engine management issues.
Cheers

greenMachine · Postby **greenMachine** » Tue Nov 07, 2017 7:54 am

GR124 wrote:MB, I have the standard NB8A TB, ...

Robbo, I hope you are familiar with the trail of broken TBs following these engines around the racing circuits of the world. If not, a quick google will enlighten you :wink:

This thread addresses the most popular solution, though 'popular' may be something of a misnomer ... Skunk2 TB

:mrgreen:

GR124 · Postby **GR124** » Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:29 am

manga_blue wrote:
manga_blue wrote:I can't see any problems with cutting back the plastic covers until you have just enough to hold the timing scale.
I should qualify that. The kitty litter at Philip Island is marble sized piece of heavy quartz. Some of the other tracks are almost as bad. Following traffic after someone has kindly spread that on the track can be like being machine gunned. You may need adequate stone protection.

I know what you mean MB. I have been looking at the small gap between the crank timing belt pulley and the alloy half moon casting underneath. A small rock would wedge in there good :frown:

The clubman engine area will be fully closed in including the floor pan. so hoping there are no issues with debris.

GR124 · Postby **GR124** » Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:31 am

RS2000 wrote:
GR124 wrote:MB, I have the standard NB8A TB, So I guess I'll rout the water line back through that. After a bit of research looks like I need to keep the water running through the TB to keep the engine management happy. For now I'll keep the water running through the oil cooler I think. Once running I look at my other options.

On my NB8A, with OE T/B & ECU, I bypassed the T/B, with the coolant hose going directly from the oil cooler/heater to the tee at the thermostat housing. I haven't noticed any engine management issues.
Cheers

Wow, this is good news. I'll bypass the TB water lines. Less complex the better for the track. Thanks RS2000

GR124 · Postby **GR124** » Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:37 am

greenMachine wrote:
GR124 wrote:MB, I have the standard NB8A TB, ...

Robbo, I hope you are familiar with the trail of broken TBs following these engines around the racing circuits of the world. If not, a quick google will enlighten you

This thread addresses the most popular solution, though 'popular' may be something of a misnomer ... Skunk2 TB

I have heard of it, I must admit I did a quick search a month ago and thought that it may not be a big issue????
In saying that I don't want a potential BIG problem if it is an easy cheap fix. I'm not spending much money on this engine ATM as I just want to get to the track. The engine mods for Race will be later.

Thanks for the heads up GreenMachine, I'll do some more research.

greenMachine · Postby **greenMachine** » Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:26 am

Robbo, there are two schools of thought.

One, poorly adjusted throttle cable exerts pressure on the shaft, causing it to flex and subsequently break.

Two, aerodynamic flutter of the shaft arising from high velocity/high mass airflow, causing it to fatigue and break.

Neither are mutually exclusive. Unsurprisingly, the break occurs where the shaft is drilled for the screws.

The real damage is caused by the screw holding the throttle butterfly being ingested, especially in the case of a turbo'd engine. Nobody has yet come up with a dependable way of strengthening the shaft, and/or retaining the screws.

Seems like going beyond 7k rpm, or spending lots of time at 7k, or pushing lots of air through the TB are the risk factors. I have broken at least three, but I am a slow learner :roll:

manga_blue · Postby **manga_blue** » Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:13 pm

greenMachine wrote:One, poorly adjusted throttle cable exerts pressure on the shaft, causing it to flex and subsequently break.

My solution to this was to adjust the cable while an assistant used both feet to push the pedal as far into the carpet as it would go. This simulates the frustration of a driver trying desperately to catch the car in front down the main straight.

On a similar note I've seen about half a dozen broken pedal mounts on the tracks. Same cause.

greenMachine · Postby **greenMachine** » Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:04 pm

Manga, I went one better, and took the angle grinder to the throttle stop on the TB and removed it completely :shock:

. Still broke it, so I have concluded that while badly adjusted cables can do it, there is more in play here than adjustment issues.

I did the cable adjustment earlier, but was not impressed with the strength/rigidity of the pedal supports, and suspected someone in the heat of battle could probably still over-stress the shaft - I was therefore not surprised when another one broke, so that was when I decided to remove the stop on the TB, and wear the risk of going over-centre on the butterfly.

Needless to say that the SE is getting a Skunk TB (unless I can identify another solution in the next few weeks), as I have been pretty lucky not to have wrecked an engine to date, but when there is also a turbo waiting to catch the screw there is a near certainty of doing expensive damage.

:mrgreen:

GR124 · Postby **GR124** » Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:47 am

Question
Can the reverse switch located in the gearbox be removed without affecting the ECU (I would assume not). Also I believe the switch has a detent, does it require the detent for gear selection or is it simply required for operation of the switch?

I would like to remove the switch and plug up. I have some clearance issues.

Photo for reference