Everything Frame Rail Brace Related

[KevGoat]

Funny enough on my drive I thought the steering felt different...then I remembered your post lol.

I'm hoping the car will feel stiffer without the roof like it feels when I put the roof on. Interestingly, the roof creaked more on the test drive, but I put that down to it settling again after all the distortions of jacking and dropping...

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[KevGoat]

Oh! Just realised ... I didn't notice the bolts at all!

[lightyear]

Has anyone actually done any torsion testing with these on? It's one thing to say the car feels better, and handles better. But you would want to think that after all the time and money you have invested. I am not a potential customer, just curious. Most people know I believe braces are just added weight. But if there is a measurable difference then that is something I guess.

[Lokiel]

Has anyone actually done any torsion testing with these on? It's one thing to say the car feels better, and handles better. But you would want to think that after all the time and money you have invested. I am not a potential customer, just curious. Most people know I believe braces are just added weight. But if there is a measurable difference then that is something I guess.

After installing my frame rail braces i noticed that jacking the car up on one corner with the scissor jack caused the other wheel on that side to get airbourne MUCH earlier than it used to - I'd say that was clear evidence of improved torsion.

Driving the car though I didn't notice any difference.

[KevGoat]

FM did a simple test here: https://www.flyinmiata.com/tech/twisting.php

Not overly scientific but backs up what Lokiel is saying.

[KevGoat]

My son contacted me this morning for a lift to pick up his car from the crash repairer, which meant a decent drive down and across the Fleurieu Peninsular, using roads I often take in the SE. These roads are a variety of sections of tight hill curves, long open straights and some lovely sections of fast sweeping curves, good surfaces as well as bumpy high speed sections and a couple of nasty rail crossings.

I expected little, and that's what I got, little I could define - it's just "different", but in a good way. I know I can't supply quantifiable evidence, it just is. It's all very subtle, but together makes an improvement. The car is more "solid" on the road and cornering, especially through bumpy corners that would previously throw the car offline. It's like the suspension is dealing with it rather than passing it through the car, improving stability and confidence in how the car will react. I can't say for sure, but it felt like there was better grip at times.

My son gave one interesting comment that despite the faster speeds, he wasn't being thrown around in his seat as much as past drives and said if he didn't know better, he'd have sworn I'd changed the suspension.

One important factor - I noticed no shaking whatsoever for the first time since driving MX-5's - and that alone makes me very happy!!

[speed]

Any feedback from people with NA's, Alex?

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[Alex 2550]

Any feedback from people with NA's, Alex?

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Hey mate i hope you are well,
not yet but will keep you posted, mine got dispatched this week with heaps of other bits, i went a little silly (spent a small fortune with the good freight deal).
i will let you know shortly, i have an abandoned highway near my place thats like a touge track and it will certainly show any improvements.
from Jass performance "Additional structural strength over the lightweight frame rails with more than 16% (FEA stress calculation result, practically noticeable difference)"
flyin miata have a set on there cars and i believe 949 does as well but this could be to help sell them, i think from the reviews i have read the NA will see the greatest improvement due to less factory braces (especially NA6) and also body fatigue. the SE/Mazdaspeed would be the hardest to feel a difference in due to braces and age. the NA rails are very thin (tap on them) so i can see how these would help and it seems if your rails are trashed they help more, mine are perfect.
on a street car it seems a reduction in NVH can't be argued with and that makes it worth it for me, i have had the fully stripped very quick, don't care about NVH monsters and i miss my 308kw FC RX7 for its tyre destroying, passenger shitting themselves ability but i would never do the long trips in it i do in the MX but it wouldn't do the times of the RX either.
for yourself Steve i would say if you can improve the ride or NVH level with a 7KG penalty in weight you have definately improved your power to weight enough in your car to handle it, i look forward to you passing me
if i was building a full track car i don't think i would take the weight penalty and would seam weld the car especialy where fender braces are fitted, i don't think.... actually im game to say i know you wont see lap times drop by fitting frame rail braces however if the car feels more solid and more planted you may push harder than before and that will drop your times for sure.
For me its a NVH improvement nothing more as i have accepted my MX will never be the fastest out there (has a leather interior now for example) but ill enjoy it, i would like to see someone with a race car that really really knows the car with many laps under there belt fit a set and see what they have to say or what the times show or dont show.

[speed]

Any feedback from people with NA's, Alex?

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Hey mate i hope you are well,
not yet but will keep you posted, mine got dispatched this week with heaps of other bits, i went a little silly (spent a small fortune with the good freight deal).
i will let you know shortly

Alex, I'm well and actually getting out and about in the car.
Thank you for the detailed description
Although my frame rails are a different brand I expect that they will do a similar thing.
I may even make up my own butterfly brace as suggested by Kev.
Originally I sold my butterfly brace as I didn't want the hassle of removing it when working under the car but that was before I bought the hoist.
Also gives me an excuse to tinker in the garage as I don't really have to do any other work on the car since she's now running.

Take care and I'll keep you posted:)



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[LiteIsRite]

Any feedback from people with NA's, Alex?

Here's a copy of my earlier post in this thread

===================
Took a proper drive this morning, over 180km of varied (sealed) road surfaces, with my usual co-driver in the passenger seat.

I'm pleased to report that my initial observations, made just after the braces were installed last Saturday, hold true. The improvements in NVH, while subtle, were clear to both of us. Some '65 mph shimmy' is mostly cleared up as well. I had thought after my initial drive that the steering was heavier (no PS in my car), but it must have simply been my post-installation tired arms

BTW, neither of us noticed the bolt heads through the carpet.
===================

[speed]

Any feedback from people with NA's, Alex?

Here's a copy of my earlier post in this thread

Thanks for that and sorry I missed it


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[KevGoat]

Quick follow up ... the hardtop came off MXSE and was put back in storage (probably for a few more years ) and with the fantastic weather in Adelaide today I followed my previous route, but this time with the top down. I'm happy to say the car felt great compared to all the times I've dríven this route prior to the chassis rails. In fact, I noticed very little difference with the top down to having the hardtop fitted, and this really surprised me! A very (very!!) small amount of "follow through" vibration in the body over some severe bumps, but noticeably less flex and a much better feel on the road and during cornering than there use to be. Overall very happy with all the results.

[Alex 2550]

Great to hear Kev,
I put my hardtop back on this week for the first time in close to 12 months and I remembered it firmed it up but I forgot just how much, your post has me excited.
All my Jass bits were in the USA stage of the world tour yesterday.

Just a reminder for people in the group buy if you could leave a review on the frame rail braces at Jass performance that would be a nice thanks for Vlad.
Have an awesome weekend everyone

[KevGoat]

I put my hardtop back on this week for the first time in close to 12 months and I remembered it firmed it up but I forgot just how much, your post has me excited.

I think you'll notice a decent difference Alex, even without the hardtop fitted. Don't forget that mine has the roll bar and factory bracing that negates some of the effect from the hardtop, so those together with the frame rails works really well. NA's don't have the factory bracing so as Lokiel has mentioned previously, adding a butterfly brace would add a big benefit (not considering the weight penalty). Unfortunately, the Jass rails have no provision for this should anyone decide to add one later, and NA owners considering these rails in future need to keep that in mind. Even NB owners who think they'd prefer the butterfly brace over the factory bracing need to consider this as well I suppose.

There are many other braces available - Thompson, Racing Beat etc - that can still be added to NA's of course. I had the Thompson front brace on my NA6 and noticed a difference just with that one. I also had one of the RB rear braces lying around, but never got to fitting it, but write ups on those mention positive effects. So there's still choices out there without the butterfly brace.

Will be interesting to read your opinions once yours are fitted Alex.

[Alex 2550]

Will be interesting to read your opinions once yours are fitted Alex.

ill let you know Kev thats for sure, mine are in the country! woo hoo!.
as far as bracing goes my NA is a little more braced than others as its a 96-97 model NA8 so i have the brace between the towers behind the seats, the diff brace like NB's and from what i can see the identical ladder brace as the NB8A (i believe it changed on 8B) so its nearly as stiff as an NB8A from what i can tell.
on the subject other nice things that the series 2 NA8 got was proper armrests on the doors and pockets, interior light on the windscreen thats useless like NB so i retro fitted the under dash lights from early NA to help (the holes are blanked off), same brakes as NB8A (all NA8's have em) but the big difference the series 2 NA8 got was the 16bit ECU like the NB rather than the 8 bit and uses a completely different ECU plug. Manga_blue could actually feel the difference the computer made and 93_clubman filled me in on some of the other changes.
unfortunately S2 NA8 didn't get the nice little domed polished rocker cover bolts that other NA's have but i have put some stainless ones in now.