Nuddy's NC race car

[Nuddy]

I bought the NC from Dan.
You can read about it's development here:

viewtopic.php?f=57&t=53973
go for a NC
Thought I'd continue the story here.

I was keen to race in MX-5 Cup and the NB would need some work just to get down to the qualifying 1:16 at Wakefield.
So I decided to go with an NC. I posted here for advice and Dan offered the advice to go for a NC and a few tips on what to do with a NC for quick lap times.
Then he offered his highly developed NC track car at a bargain price.
I needed to keep the initial outlay as low as possible so we agreed on a price without the wing, the Weds wheels, the 6 point harnesses (I had a new one not yet fitted to the NB) and the steering wheel (Dan put the standard wheel back on).
I borrowed Phil's trailer and picked up the car and the 5 Enkei wheels which were fitted with half worn Hankook Ventus TD Z221 215/45R17 tyres.
First time up my driveway took out the front splitter. I will get it welded and re-fitted at some point - not a high priority. I have upgraded the driveway.
I have left the ride height where Dan had set it for road use which is higher than the lowest setting he had used on the track. I am using the still registered car a bit on the road, not as a daily I do daily riding rather than driving. I drive from Newcastle to Eastern Creek but hire a trailer when I go to Wakefield. I drive to Padstow to Deckspeed and I do MX-5 Club runs when I can. My first drive in this car was a Putty Road brekkie run.
So I will try running a bit lower at some point when I am trailering to the track.
The Hankooks are just about finished now, maybe 1 more day in them so I bought the Weds wheels from Dan and got some 235/40R17 Federal 595 RS-RR tyres fitted. 200 treadwear compared to 80 for the Hankooks means they are not as sticky when hot but also not as slippery when cold. Better on the street but then I have the Michelins on the standard wheels for the street. When the Federal are worn nearly worn out my next tyres will probably be a 120 treadwear and I expect eventually to be using slicks - probably second hand.

All I had done with the NB was 1 supersprint at EC North and 1 MX-5 club trackday at Wakefield.
After the Putty Road run I did a 3 day stint with the NC. Saturday supersprint at North Circuit, Sunday supersprint at Wakefield and Monday trackday at Wakefield. Dan has done a 1:09.87 in this car at Wakefield. On the monday I got down to 1:16.98 so just a second to shave off to qualify for MX-5 Cup.
Next was a Ringwood 'hillclimb', followed by a SOTS day at Wakefield where I got down to 1:15.11 on the Michelins (drove to the track). Then another supersprint at EC North on the Hankooks where I recorded a 1:22.87
After that the car went to Deckspeed for bonnet pins, battery isolater and cables, roll bar certification and CAMS logbooking. Then the Federals were fitted to the Weds wheels and I drove down to EC South for a MX-5 club trackday. 1:10.68 on Federals compared to Dan's 1:03.58 on Hankooks.
Next was a CSCA Supersprint at Wakefield on Saturday followed by MX- Cup round 4 at Wakefield on Sunday. I recorded a 1:14.6 during race 2.
I will report on that race meeting very soon. Since then I have not dríven except for the club hillclimb and down to EC today to help with the motorkhana. Next Saturday I have another supersprint at EC, this time using the 4.5 km extended circuit. Sunday a week later we have MX-5 Cup round 5 at Wakefield combined with a club trackday.

[Bushberger69]

Hey Nuddy, I'll be keeping an eye on this thread... you snapped this NC up just before I started searching... so I'm a little bit jealous. Dan's build thread convinced me to stretch to an NC and so I've now started setting up an '07. I should probably start a garage thread...

Hope to chat to you next Sunday at Wakefield, I missed the entry for track time, but coming down for a look anyway. Cheers, Tony.

[Nuddy]

Hey Nuddy, I'll be keeping an eye on this thread... you snapped this NC up just before I started searching... so I'm a little bit jealous. Dan's build thread convinced me to stretch to an NC and so I've now started setting up an '07. I should probably start a garage thread...

Hope to chat to you next Sunday at Wakefield, I missed the entry for track time, but coming down for a look anyway. Cheers, Tony.

I'll be interested to read your thread. I was looking for a cheap NC and was about to look at one for $11k when Dan's came up and I didn't hesitate. I went down to look at it next day and did a deal on the spot before he had a chance to change his mind.

[Nuddy]

CSCA 2017 Supersprint Series Rd.5 Sunday 12th August SMSP brabham (extended circuit)

What an interesting circuit. 4.5 km around an 17 turns. 5 groups, 108 drivers, 6 runs of 9 minutes + warm up and slow down.
Because it is such a long circuit it allowed up to 26 cars on the track at one time, sent out in pairs at 5 second intervals.
Competitors enter the track just before turn 16 so it is only a short distance to the straight for the start. And we exit at turn 4 after the chequered flag. This all saves time and maximises competitive track usage.
Team Morgan did a great job under difficult circumstances. Garages were not available as they were being set up for display on Sunday.
I got there before 7am and the carports were all taken. Parking spots were hard to find but i did find one and unloaded the gear (I drove down) then went to scrutineering. When I got back someone had parked in my spot and it was not a competitor so I could not find the driver. I had to park across the front of cars in carports between runs.
Upside was at the briefing the CofC stated that overtaking was not limited to on the straights. This suited me as I was behind a Jaguar, Lotus, Clubman and Silvia, all of which were faster down the straight. I was able to overtake them all (one at a time) around the circuit and get far enough ahead to maintain position on the straight. I wasn't surprised to get past the Jaguar but was surprised to be getting through the turns significantly faster than the Lotus and the Clubman.
My best lap was 2:26.35 and I had a great day.
Results not yet published.

[Nuddy]

Changes since buying from Dan:
Not much at all really, just the tyres and radio back in, antenna back on.
Moved the drivers seat forward (my legs are shorter).
Then the items needed for racing such as bonnet pins and battery isolater with remote operation.
After Cup round 4 I was considering going 2.5 and was going to fit a 2.0 head with camshafts and valves and put that on a standard 2.5 bottom end.
Further discussion with those that have done it convinced me to stick with the 2.0 engine. Apparently the standard 2.5 cannot be 'revved' with safety so drivers have to rely on the increased torque and keep the revs down for reliability. Or do a major rebuild at great expense.
So I will stick with 2.0 and do some more development on it before MX-5 Cup 2018.
For this year I'll continue to invest in 'seat time' to get the lap times down.

[Nuddy]

Change of plan again. 2.5 with 2.0 head and camshafts is back on the agenda. Soon. Before round 6.
Also Nankang AR-1 tryes as used by Todd in round 5. Better than slicks for a 6 lap race.

[rascal]

Change of plan again. 2.5 with 2.0 head and camshafts is back on the agenda. Soon. Before round 6.

Your previous plan below was a much better idea....

For this year I'll continue to invest in 'seat time' to get the lap times down.

[Regie]

go seat timne

and why you going 2.0 head?

go 2.5 everything and throw cams at it

[Nuddy]

Change of plan again. 2.5 with 2.0 head and camshafts is back on the agenda. Soon. Before round 6.

Your previous plan below was a much better idea....

For this year I'll continue to invest in 'seat time' to get the lap times down.

Why not do both?

Spending a LOT more on 'seat time' than on the engine.
I won't miss any 'seat time' for the sake of the engine conversion.
A weekday with trackschool, round 5 of the Cup and discussion convinced me that if I can match the next slowest in straight line performance I can have some real racing with the backmarkers.

[greenMachine]

Ahhh Nuddy, you don't get it ...

There are two variables - the car and the driver. Unless you are the complete driver package that is, with nothing more to learn.

If you are learning still, changing the car means that any changes in performance have potentially two sources - the changes in the car, and learnings by the driver. It will be difficult to identify what you are doing right, or better, because that will be clouded by the changes to the car. Further compounding this, you will be adapting to the 'new' car. This will slow your understanding of the development of your driving skills.

Don't get me wrong, you are perfectly free to do what you have (apparently) decided, and no doubt your times will improve, which nobody disputes is 'a good thing'.

Given your propensity to spend on improvements to the car, perhaps you should consider investing in a full datalogging system, which would allow you to separate out the driving from the car. Check out some of Magpie's posts on this subject, if that interests you. Be warned though, it does require some effort to learn to use data to best effect.

[hmd]

+1 for data logger. 'What you can't measure you can't improve on'

If you doing a 1:14 when you had previously done say a 1:13 at least you should be able to tell where you are slower ....

An old racer friend of mine is selling an old race technology dl1 data logger, let me know if you are interested.

[Magpie]

Check out some of Magpie's posts on this subject, if that interests you. Be warned though, it does require some effort to learn to use data to best effect.:

Thanks, happy to help people convert! I'm using datalogging even more now to really start to analyse what is going on. Video also helps to visualise what is going on whereas the data can show you want you cannot see, that is are you using all the available grip etc. Looking at a recent video I could see that I was always looking ahead to the next corner, whereas in the past I was fixated on the now and not looking ahead.

If you are learning still, changing the car means that any changes in performance have potentially two sources - the changes in the car, and learnings by the driver. It will be difficult to identify what you are doing right, or better, because that will be clouded by the changes to the car. Further compounding this, you will be adapting to the 'new' car. This will slow your understanding of the development of your driving skills.

This statement rang very true on the weekend. Was chatting to a forum member on Saturday and we were discussing that a few years ago our times were very similar, he was constantly catching me under brakes and it was only because I had more straight line power that I was able to keep ahead.

Travel forward a few years, neither car has changed that much, however I have gotten a lot faster. The friend was not that much faster than a few years ago because he was already pushing his car whereas I was under driving mine...

Don't get me wrong, you are perfectly free to do what you have (apparently) decided, and no doubt your times will improve, which nobody disputes is 'a good thing'.

How true, but get ready to keep learning every time you make a significant change.

[Magpie]

Here is an example of what you can learn about your own driving style...

From this it is easy to identify that I'm braking too early and too little. The tyres can give at least 0.5g more grip. If I can fix this then there is a fair of time that could be gained.

T3 by Eipeip, on Flickr

[Nuddy]

Ahhh Nuddy, you don't get it ...

There are two variables - the car and the driver. Unless you are the complete driver package that is, with nothing more to learn.

Nothing to learn? Not achievable. Lewis Hamilton is still learning.

If you are learning still, changing the car means that any changes in performance have potentially two sources - the changes in the car, and learnings by the driver. It will be difficult to identify what you are doing right, or better, because that will be clouded by the changes to the car. Further compounding this, you will be adapting to the 'new' car. This will slow your understanding of the development of your driving skills.

Given that we are all still learning and always will be, when is the right time to make changes to the car? Should I have stuck with the stock NB8A? If I had I would still be a long way from qualifying for MX-5 Cup. Buying Dan's car got me there in 3 days (on the track).


Racing is different from supersprinting. It would be nice if we had a racing class for MX-5s like specMiata for example. Where the cars are very similar and drivers can compete with very similar equipment. Sure I could race Excels or Pulsars but I want to race MX-5s. So I have to try to achieve equipment similarity with at least one other Cup competitor so that we can actually race 'door to door' as they say. Again with Pulsars or Excels it truly is door to door and I'm not interested in that. I grew up watching racing when Fred Gibson drove a lotus elan and contact was just not on.
If I can be on the back row of the grid and get to turn 2 side by side with my grid partner I can have a race with him/her.
If I have a 30 metre deficit into turn 2 I'm not going to have a race, particularly as I lose another 20 metres up the hill.
I'm not going to learn racecraft at supersprints or trackdays when you can only pass on the straights. I'm not going to learn when racing either unless there is someone to race with.

If I didn't want to race I would have continued with the NB8A. It is a delightful road car and I was learning to drive it, on the steep part of the curve. I did buy a second set of (standard) wheels with half worn Federal RS-Rs. It has adequate power for supersprints and the brakes and suspension was fine.
But I was/am keen to race and with a standard NB that wasn't going to happen. I could have bought one of Lou's cars and been there already but I really wanted to stay registered. Dan's car was unbelievable value but just needs that little bit more to get racing.

[greenMachine]

The conventional answer is - when neither you or anyone else can make the car go any faster in its current spec. That is, you are driving at the limit of the car, not the driver. Or, as Bwob said - 'if you can't go fast on 90hp, you cant go fast with 900'.

That is a bit over-simplified, but it sums up the philosophy that it is the driver that makes the car go fast. A poor driver can go fast in a quick car, but will always be beaten by a better driver in a quick car.



(It was Bwob that said that?)