Conza's ND!

RBH58 · Postby **RBH58** » Sat Mar 04, 2017 4:44 pm

I had an RX8 for a weekend back in 2005 when I was seriously considering buying one. I loved the steering, chassis and the ride/handling balance. It was a superbly sorted car. The bit I was less keen on was the engine. It seemed a bit characterless. Yes it was smooth but it was too linear. There was no "excitement zone" with it, it just gradually picked up power in a perfectly linear response to more revs. I kept thinking how brilliant it would be with a Honda VTEC in it. The ND MX5 has some similarities in handling to he RX8, but the weight transfer is more exaggerated. The ND MX5 is a very softly suspended car.

I'd be interested in your thoughts on the two.

BTW...I have an ND RF and an Abarth 124. And they are surprisingly different cars to drive.

Conza · Postby **Conza** » Sat Mar 04, 2017 9:32 pm

RBH58 wrote:I had an RX8 for a weekend back in 2005 when I was seriously considering buying one. I loved the steering, chassis and the ride/handling balance. It was a superbly sorted car. The bit I was less keen on was the engine. It seemed a bit characterless. Yes it was smooth but it was too linear. There was no "excitement zone" with it, it just gradually picked up power in a perfectly linear response to more revs. I kept thinking how brilliant it would be with a Honda VTEC in it. The ND MX5 has some similarities in handling to he RX8, but the weight transfer is more exaggerated. The ND MX5 is a very softly suspended car.

I'd be interested in your thoughts on the two.

BTW...I have an ND RF and an Abarth 124. And they are surprisingly different cars to drive.

Just before I compare the FE and ND, The ND RF and Abarth 124 would be the fairest comparison between the two, simply by being closest in weight. I'd be curious to know if you had to give one up tomorrow, which one and or why would you keep the other one? Also interested why you have both of these cars, and not a standard ND?

I disagree with 'too' linear, I can never imagine a car being too linear and that being a negative, I loved it's linearity and to me the excitement zone was above 7000rpm. Mine had a modified intake which enhanced this, it also probably gave it more torque and an incredible sound. it was the AEM Mazdaspeed, completely improves that cars sound. I would hate to have a VTEC kick from everything I know, it'd be like turbo lag in a naturally aspirated engine, to me that would be beside the point, might as well get a large turbocharged (turbine size on a) car.

ND vs. FE, I drove 5 FEs, mine also had much stiffer anti-roll bars, which ultimately I think detracted from the cars playfulness and made it much less predictable, especially in the wet, much more prone to oversteer. I think both were basically perfectly balanced, the heavier FE had a lighter engine of course, and I think it must've been a stiffer shell, but I have no complaints with the ND.

The ND is softer, but in a good way, I was concerned before I drove it that I would need to go and buy the Abarth's anti-roll bars but conversely the roll is fantastic, you must've felt it yourself in your ND, it rolls over then grips and its a beautiful sensation, much more enjoyable than the FE's was, which had an almost perfect, but dull sense of sheer grip. The lightness is the key for me, I don't think the RF's added weight would make much of a difference.

The NDs engine is fantastic, very torquey, the numbers don't do it justice, it wants to run like a V8, below 2000rpm up hill in 6th gear? Crazy, but it does it without complaints below half throttle. I wish it redlined slightly higher, but it's a very small want, the sound is still excellent, the power is again, still linear and responsive. I think it has much better response than the rotary which seemed to get started and finish another 3000rpm higher, the ND just goes.

RBH58 · Postby **RBH58** » Sat Mar 04, 2017 11:53 pm

Mmmm....the ND RF v the Abarth. Well we got both because my wife loved the Abarth and bought it in November. I had a BRZ at the time. When it came time to turn over the BRZ three weeks ago, I was thinking of getting a 330i MSport, but I was so sucked in by the RF's appearance I decided to take a look at one...and the rest, as they say, is history. I was a bit concerned about "buying 2 MX5s" but thought why the hell not?

So this happened...

Comparing them? With the additional 45kgs weight in the RF, there isn't a lot of weight difference between the MX5 and the Abarth. But the MX5 almost feels a class of car smaller to drive.

I've tried to put my finger on why this is the case, and I think it's because all of the control weights are higher on the Abarth. The steering has a little more heft to it. The MX5 is set up such that there is less initial weight when turning off centre and it appears to be changing direction slightly more eagerly (this is artificial though and at times feels it...I think I prefer the Abarth's more honest approach). The Abarth is very slightly more reticent on turn in but very quickly does a nice transition to loading up the outside rear, but it's more progressive and controlled than the MX5's hyper quick lurch onto the outside rear. The Abarth feels more deliberate and measured, the MX5 more hyper alert. People jumping into each car for the first time are going to be more confident more quickly in the Abarth. You have to learn to trust the MX5...but you can dig a lot deeper than you initially think. I do have Eibach springs on the RF though, that lower it about 25mm and firm it up by about 20%...but it's still very roly poly compared to the Abarth.

Adding to the feeling of more weight in the Abarth is the different gearbox and clutch. The NC gearbox that the Abarth gets is notchier than the ND MX5's and can be downright recalcitrant when cold. They are both great gearboxes by anybody's standards, but the MX5's is (again) lighter and more "snickety". And then the MX5's clutch is lighter (and more progressive and better). And finally, the Abarth's hood is longer so the view from the driver's seat (yet again) gives the impression of a bigger car.

As far as engines go, take your pick. I see, the appeal of both. With the Abarth, you can adopt a more laid back "wafting" approach and still move along very briskly "surfing a wave of torque". The MX5 is probably more rewarding when you are really "getting into it" but doesn't do "effortless" quite like the Abarth does.

I honestly can't decide which of these two cars I prefer. Which car gets used the most on the weekends seems to be a product of who got home last and parked in front on a Friday night. It's a nice choice

Conza · Postby **Conza** » Sun Mar 05, 2017 9:42 pm

Well, they're two great looking cars. I guess the fact that you have both, and you've come to prove that they're different enough to you, to not feel like they're just the same car, means you're lucky that they both exist, otherwise you may really have bought two MX-5s

RBH58 · Postby **RBH58** » Sun Mar 05, 2017 11:49 pm

Conza wrote:Well, they're two great looking cars. I guess the fact that you have both, and you've come to prove that they're different enough to you, to not feel like they're just the same car, means you're lucky that they both exist, otherwise you may really have bought two MX-5s

They are surprisingly different.

Conza · Postby **Conza** » Mon Mar 06, 2017 10:04 pm

I'm not one for modifications, not really, and especially not major ones, especially to body work... However that aerial.

So I've gone ahead and bought a stubby one, I think it'll just streamline the car a bit more, seemed a reasonable price too, we'll see if it's easy to fit and of course some before and after shots as well when it arrives.