Na8 weight

[Mr Morlock]

I did say "you" would not get it for an H plate- the rules ( if followed) are pretty clear on that. M plates is a different ball game and VASS certs are required but just what is actually accepted and whether an Engineer is prepared to sign them off is a totally different thing. There clearly will be limitations from an engineering viewpoint as to whether a change can be proven safe and all the loads and calculations can support it. "You" also have to find a Club to accept an M car. The homework should be done by the guy who wants to go down this path and any comments here is just that- subject to verification. As far other States are concerned CP rules are not the same including the all important age for qualification.

[mossy]

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All the best with the project Mossy - we all, well most, look forward to seeing it develop.

Thanks mate, I realize this is not everyones cup of tea but if I worried about what other people thought I wouldn't build it at all My favourite mx5 I owned was Barrry Fauxs old s/c mx5, that was a lot of fun to drive at around only 120rwkw (I think) but Ive always had the 1uz in the back of my mind since the first car arourd the early 2000's. I know it will be far from easy but although not an engine conversion I have completed a complete restoration of my 240z hopefully that will help me with some problem solving I will likely run into.

Good news though, A 1uz is 3969CC, so you only need to be over 992.25kg! .. 2.25Kg over according to 93_Clubman's info. Talk to your enginerer about that one, it'll be his license on the line as to wheater or not he'd allow for that much grey area. (probably no, but it never hurts to ask)

I will find out some more info on that shortly, if its a problem I can go the nb route.

[bruce]

I would get something in writing from Engineer or actually pay him a deposit to lock him in. He may change his mind and not take you on down the track. Engineers are a fickle bunch.
Your main problem is the weight. Vicroads rego labels all listed the NA as sub-1000kgs. This is what the Engineer will refer to. Weighbridge weight is only used to determine the % change in weight, and I think braking.
Also, is it all worth it? The 4litre v8 is not a ball of fire. Modding it will be costly, and then your Engineers cert is worthless.

[93_Clubman]

990kg, which both NA8's Vic & NSW rego papers indicate, isn't for a fully optioned NA8. It's just the basic model NA8 kerb weight.
From memory the 4 litre is the engine John Pitt of Wheeler's Hill Vic used. He went the ICV route with the blue NB in which used an LS V8 motor, but not sure if he had to resort to the ICV route for the red NA in which he used the 4 litre. mhj on here bought the red NA, & had it up for sale early last year. Might be worth a chat with John Pitt.

I did say "you" would not get it for an H plate

No you said:

I don't think you have a chance for Club Permit in Vic

You didn't make the distinction, you simply ruled it out of hand because it's an affront to you.
Thank goodness for car clubs such as the Ferals - you are what they refer to as an AB - research that.

[mossy]

990kg, which both NA8's Vic & NSW rego papers indicate, isn't for a fully optioned NA8. It's just the basic model NA8 kerb weight.
From memory the 4 litre is the engine John Pitt of Wheeler's Hill Vic used. He went the ICV route with the blue NB in which used an LS V8 motor, but not sure if he had to resort to the ICV route for the red NA in which he used the 4 litre. mhj on here bought the red NA, & had it up for sale early last year. Might be worth a chat with John Pitt.

Does anyone have John Pitts details?

Your right Bruce, doing something like a cam swap in the 1uz is expensive, but depending on what model 1uz you go for its plenty for the mx5, the vvti model puts out 220kw, probably a little more if you free up the headers and exhaust. Although i do love the 1uz its also because I just want something thats different, even the LFX swap sounds interesting I just dont know if it has the sound I'm after.

[93_Clubman]

aka_juffa might be able to help re JP.
I've got an average quality jpg of the article on JP cars I'll attach, but in the interim some snippets follow from when Jake was considering an engine swap:

As far as motors go,
1UZFE - too hard to convert to manual adn engineer.
13b - not a fan of rotary's, the last one I had cost me a fortune.
So the short list at the moment is
SR20det - Huge aftermarket support, strong sweet shifting gearbox, all alloy so reasonably light.
350z V6 - Good package and can supercharge it later. Not sure if I can fit the headers in so might rule this motor out
CA18det - Same pros as SR - Cheaper, no need to dry sump to fit
3sge BEAMS - still researching this one
S2000 - too expensive.

As far as the V8's go, 4.0l is max NA engine capacity and that requires a lot more engineering. When I asked the engineer he started talking chassis torsional strength tests amongst other things and the costs associated. So it looks like the SR is out in front at the moment.

there is another way some of extreme guys used to go
LPG !!
no adr's ;)
i would look at a 1uz or even a 2j on gas.....
NOW that would be a KILLER conversion
& 1uz'ds are much cheaper & make more power then a std sr ;) then you have the options of forced induction & being on gas adr's dont apply

1UZ is out, requires heaps more engineering (torsional stiffness test of the chassis) and will cost heaps once a suitable manual gearbox was fitted up.
2J, too big and heavy. I still want the car to handle.
As for LPG, I am building a sports car not playing around with a bbq
I have used LPG before and it's not for this project. I want to do some tarmac rally's and don't know how CAMS would view the whole LPG thing.

Above from following thread:
viewtopic.php?style=3&f=29&t=26345

[hks_kansei]

Mr Morlock, the M plate is essentially an H plate for vehicles modified beyond that accepted by Vicroads without an engineers (vass) certification

Still needs to meet the same age requirements as a H plate, still needs to only be used for 45 or 90 days.
The only difference is that if the car has been modified it must have vass approval (same approval process as for standard rego) to be allowed M registration (and cannot get H rego)


Basically, a standard say 1990 MX5 (or with small modifications that are allowed without vass, like wheels, air filter etc) is eligible for either regular rego, or H rego.

The same car, with larger modifications, like am engine swap, must pass a vass inspection, and will then be eligible for either regular rego, or M rego.


The M rego scheme was bought in to stop people from skipping around the H plate rules and having heavily modified cars on the road without vass inspection (since there were a few too many clubs flouting rules by signing the permits for cars they shouldn't)

End of the day it's as simple as H for historic cars, M for modified historic cars.

[hks_kansei]

Also, the VASS engineer will know all this, since that knowledge is what most of their fees are about.

It's also the whole reason you need to use a vass engineer rather than any old shop, since vass ones are trained in the vicroads rules and approved to do the inspections for vixroads.

[Mr Morlock]

HKS comments re H and M is essentially correct- good summary- - not a problem though the M is still something that has to be signed off- dodgy poorly executed or dangerous changes may end up with no VASS

93 is being very selective with quotes - I was quite clear in a number of my quotes e.g. first page "If the vehicles is planned for CP in Victoria the engine conversion would need to at least be checked as well as the car might have to have an M plate or a VASS etc". I am well aware of M plate as a category and of the problems in implenentation.

93 also said "You didn't make the distinction, you simply ruled it out of hand because it's an affront to you. Thank goodness for car clubs such as the Ferals - you are what they refer to as an AB - research that" ..... In response- yes I did make a distinction and was well aware of H and M and I have no problem with the latter if its done properly.

As for a reference to the Ferals or other Clubs ( or non Clubs) are concerned which are not working within the true spirit of the CP scheme I most certainly don't agree with rorting or abusing the generous scheme to benefit genuine old car enthusiasts. The fact is that the majority of Classic car guys dont approve of abusing the scheme and tha'ts abundantly clear from comments and statements heard, minuted and put through bodies like the AOMC. Vicroads are aware of the dodgy Clubs and have deregistered some of them and that will continue. AOMC actively encourage member CP holders to report abuses to them and that will be passed to Vicroads. Guys driving cars daily and not filling in logbooks or vehicles which are clearly not rwc etc undermine a scheme which the old car guys value.

As a matter of interest perhaps to some. an AOMC representative put in a massive amount of work and liaised with Vicroads to sort through many issues with wording and clarification relating to the new CP scheme and how it affected old cars and which for a number of years appeared like it would never get up. Top marks to AOMC and Vicroads.

[manga_blue]

990kg, which both NA8's Vic & NSW rego papers indicate, isn't for a fully optioned NA8. It's just the basic model NA8 kerb weight.

They're not consistent, Paul. As I said early in the thread, my Vicroads rego papers said 950Kg but when I transferred to NSW it magically lost 20Kg to become 930Kg on the RMS rego papers.

[mossy]

990kg, which both NA8's Vic & NSW rego papers indicate, isn't for a fully optioned NA8. It's just the basic model NA8 kerb weight.

They're not consistent, Paul. As I said early in the thread, my Vicroads rego papers said 950Kg but when I transferred to NSW it magically lost 20Kg to become 930Kg on the RMS rego papers.

There seems to be a different weight everwhere you look on the internet, I even rang vic roads and they said they don't keep those records anymore, even though my datsun has a weight listed on its last rego papers

[93_Clubman]

990kg, which both NA8's Vic & NSW rego papers indicate, isn't for a fully optioned NA8. It's just the basic model NA8 kerb weight.

They're not consistent, Paul. As I said early in the thread, my Vicroads rego papers said 950Kg but when I transferred to NSW it magically lost 20Kg to become 930Kg on the RMS rego papers.

Seen Phil - I'm saying my NA8 has been consistent in NSW since 1993, & later in Vic, & just happens to be consistent with 990kg kerb weight quoted for base model, ie no AC or PS or HT etc.

[93_Clubman]

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[93_Clubman]

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[93_Clubman]

93 is being very selective with quotes

Only one being selective is you, ie hearing & memory - you either said or you didn't - qualifying later without acknowledgement, after it's been pointed out to you simply proves our point.