Na8 weight

[Mr Morlock]

I don't think you have a chance for Club Permit in Vic with a engine size going from 1.8 litre to 4 litre-. An MX-5 with any V8 is going to set off an abandon ship signal as far as 25 year old CP candidate. It also completely defeats the purpose of the scheme . The legislation is checkable and the Engineers available say through Vicroads to get an opinion. You certainly will not get it as a Classic and Historic. Hot rods are a different thing- more opportunity for mods but thats a whole new world.

[bruce]

Call an Engineer. VASS required before rego (before H plate). Mine shall be H-plated once it hits 25 yrs.
But from memory the max capacity in Vic is 3-something litres.

[93_Clubman]

I don't think you have a chance for Club Permit in Vic with a engine size going from 1.8 litre to 4 litre. It also completely defeats the purpose of the scheme.

That's why there are H plates & M plates - can't see why it wouldn't get an M plate:
https://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/registr ... ub-permits

[Mr Morlock]

The issue about engine change is that the engine should be in keeping with the original car so you cannot fit a a 6 cyl eng in vehicle which was never made with a 6 and you could not go from 1.5l to 3 litres and double the horsepower. Those cars that are modded beyond the spirit or the spec of a classic ( 25 year min) are apparently now being shifted from H plates to M plates when Vicroads have finally come to grips with it. One of the big issues is safety and it can get complicated. You dont need VAAS certification for unmodified + 25 year old vehicles but you do need a rwc a ,Club to agree, and some other forms. The Classic car world also get really pissed off with people trying to take shortcuts with a system that saves cars and helps car club enthusiasts. Check out the AOMC site as well

[93_Clubman]

You've not indicated why it won't get a CPS M plate, only why it won't get a CPS H plate, which we knew in the beginning. Saw the AOMC website years ago & revisit it & Vicroads intermittently to keep up to date.

[mossy]

Bruce, spoken to an engineer already and its vehicle weight x 4 naturally aspirated, also the engine has to be of the same year as the car manufacture or newer. It wasn't a massive in depth conversation but just to find out some guidelines before I proceed.

I thought m plates would have been fine from what I've researched, I'll have to follow up on that one. In saying that I saw a toyota tercel wagon on club plates today.

[Mr Morlock]

The M plate change is not yet been put to bed by Vicroads- hey are still grappling with how to go about it. There are plenty of older Classic cars with mods done decades ago and what do they do with them? The issue of an M plate may come down to things like drum brakes being changed to discs and in that case an Engineer has to sign off that the conversion has been done in line with legal requirements. A change like that is done for safety but a change involving a lot more HP and a heavier engine etc is a different ball game. I dont need to give reasons why a V8 is going to be hard - its not my headache and no need for me to research it. Some Clubs just would not accept anything they did not feel comfortable with.- I already know it will not be possible for H plates . Read the innocuous statement by Vicroads "Club Permit Scheme may be modified, however specific restrictions apply. You can modify a club permit vehicle within certain guidlines before you will need to get an approval certificate from a signatory of the Vehicle Assessment Signatory Scheme (VASS)". The devil is in the detail. Incidertally it's AOMC that has put the work into the CP system as an umbrella organisaiton with Vicroads .
Toyota Tercel on CP- yes and lots of other pedestrian cars and people who are not car enthusiast and not in genuine Clubs.

[Nevyn72]

I want to do a 1UZ conversion which is a 4lt v8.

If you don't do a build thread there will be blood in the water!!

I've seen a few V8 conversion threads out there but not one for this particular engine........ Would love to see some more details. Gearbox, diff, is there enough room without major surgery?

BTW, the last couple of generatons of the NA8's in the US (with A/C & P/S) were over 1000Kg if that helps.
https://forum.miata.net/vb/archive/inde ... 89738.html

[mossy]

There has has been a few done now so there is a bit of info on how people have done it. Most seem to have gone the way of cutting up the factory subframe but by far the best way is to buy the mountless v8 roadsters tubular subframe and make up your own mounts. I would go with the w58 mk4 supra gearbox with a bullet cars gearbox conversion kit and rx7 conversion on the back.

https://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=167057
http://www.v8miata.net/cars-sale-4/1991 ... dtop-2074/

[hks_kansei]

The whole H or M plate things doesn't mean anything since it sounds like he's already spoken to am engineer, which is he one signing the papers to declare its legal or not for whichever rego.

Anyway, as far as an accurate weight, the suggestions for the weighbridges are what you'll do.

As far as getting it over that weight, you could always add weight to get it up.
Things like steel strengthening plates welded in (not that you'll need them for strength, but it can help to add up the weight)
Even things like steel wheels etc.

Really depends what the engineer is comfortable with.

[Nevyn72]

I don't think a weighbrige reading will be useful in this case.....

For a modified vehicle, they use this definition below to determine what size of engine is allowable for road registration.

When I said loaded I just meant the heaviest that series of car would have been, with all options such as A/C and hardtop.

[Mr Morlock]

In the final analysis it has to be done to the standards legislated in "your state" . Reading the regulations is just a small portion of that expensive journey.

[93_Clubman]

All the best with the project Mossy - we all, well most, look forward to seeing it develop.

The issue about engine change is that the engine should be in keeping with the original car

There is no turning the clock back

Indeed, there's no turning back the clock, & neither will time stand still.

The M plate change is not yet been put to bed by Vicroads

It's up & running at the above link.

The whole H or M plate things doesn't mean anything

It does as that's the issue Morlock was in denial about. For his planned project Mossy was always going have to get VASS certification, whether he went with full Vic rego or Vic CPS M plate. Indeed Mossy indicated in his first post the info was for VASS.

[Mr Morlock]

I reviewed my comments and reckon the statements are right about CPs . Mossy did not even mention CP until post 8. The reference to VASS in the first post is not an indication that CP was being considered. I responded because just thinking CP can be accessed for a modified vehicle cannot be assumed. A VASS can be done for a modern car but it does not mean that the same thing applies to an older car i.e. + 25 years.
The M plate system was put out about 12 mths ago but Vicraods had not worked out all the details. Vicroads met at a AOMC forum in August 2016 and was minuted- its complicated and details of how it was to be handled were not finalised. Does H or M mean anything- well it could mean $700 per annum benefit to an owner.

[Cus]

Morlock,

its not my headache and no need for me to research it.

You certainly will not get it as a Classic and Historic.

then put your advice back in the cupboard until you're prepared to do some research instead of making blanket statements that are not correct. You can get club plates on any car that meets requirements, including, but not limited to; vehicles that have been modified and are otherwise VicRoads compliant. (ie; Over 25 years old, Roadworthy, VASS if modified)

A VASS (VicRoads modified vehicle report, aka "Engineer's Certificate") defaults back to VSB 14 for nearly everything, the only things they don't default back to the VSB for are for low-end exemptions. ie; an engine with a 20% increase in power or less is OK, anything else is "refer to the VSB to see if you can, then get a VASS"

The "VSB 14" document is here:
https://infrastructure.gov.au/roads/vehicle_regulation/bulletin/pdf/NCOP3_Section_LA_Engine_01jan2011_v3.pdf

It's a national document, the eastern states all use it as their measuring stick for modified vehicles, and I'm sure the other states do too. It's boring as batshit, but it's where your engineer is getting his informaiton from, so read it and get the same info for free ;)

You want Page 11:
"All vehicles originally weighing between 800 kg and 1100 kg." - it is indeed 4x the weight of the vehicle.

Notice the word "Originally" if that wasn't there more than a few us us would have put another 250Kg of weights in the car and thrown in an LS3 by now... lol

Good news though, A 1uz is 3969CC, so you only need to be over 992.25kg! .. 2.25Kg over according to 93_Clubman's info. Talk to your enginerer about that one, it'll be his license on the line as to wheater or not he'd allow for that much grey area. (probably no, but it never hurts to ask)