Tein Flex Z Noises - Solved

[Luke]

I'll take a photo of you fixed ball upper mounts any time to prove myself wrong.

I don't know how to respond to that but I'm definitely getting off topic since the NC setup utilises rubber mounts.
Sure you an come over and take a photo of mine if you like?

See Teins website.
http://www.tein.com/products/upper_mount.html
It clearly states they do Pillow balls for fixed setups as well as ones with camber and caster plates.
When you select Flex Z as a product for NA/NB MX-5's it says they come with pillow ball upper mounts.
The exploded manual for my NB Street Flex's clearly show pillow ball upper mounts in the exploded diagram.

@JBT
Have you already used them on the track? That pretty much voids any warranty.
What were you using before the Teins?
Seems a bit of an odd choice if you plan to do less motorsport, unless of course that wasn't your initial intention.
I know I much prefer driving my Dad's NC with standard factory setup over mine for road use.

[OMY005]

Sounds like you need someone with a shock absorber dyno, does the supplier have one? You don't need the associated graphs, just make it go up and down at different speeds and listen for noises.

Andrew

[JBT]

@ Luke:
As stated, the car has been used in motorsport it's whole life and probably will be again, after I take a break this year.
The Teins were fitted 9 months ago and have been used at track days.
Why they were fitted is irrelevant
The warranty is not void
Only had stock suspension + Whiteline adjustable sways prior
I'm happy with how it performs/rides on the road. Yes, it's a firm ride and yes, it's a sports car.
It's the cr@p roads that have brought out the noise

If anyone tries to tell me that these things are no good for street, no good for track or come standard with clattering noise, then they can give me a full refund and re-fit the stock suspension!

I seem to be an island here as nobody else is fessing up to noises from Flex Zs. From my research on the web, many have problems with macstrut types (upper bearing problems) and pillow ball mounts - neither of which apply here.

@OMY005:
Yes Andrew, they have a dyno and said they would be using it to see if they can narrow down the problem. Also said something about removing both rears to test them. I don't know why they don't just put in new rear dampers if they are going to all that trouble. They had the car for 3 days last month and all that happened was the noise went from left to right....draw your own conclusions. So far it has cost them way more in labour than it would for new dampers...or complete coilovers.

Anyway, we'll see what happens this week.

[Magpie]

Is it possible to put a camera in the area of the noise and run on some roads that cause the noise.

Good to see that you have worked out the type of bump that causes it. Can be very frustrating this sort of issue.

[JBT]

I doubt it Magpie. It would probably pick up too much road and exhaust noise. I don't have anything suitable anyway. However, my "deaf to car noises" wife can hear it though.

[MINX]

JBT
You seem very certain it's the Teins, could it perhaps be something else?
Sway bar end links have certainly been a source of noises for me over the years.


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[JBT]

Tried it with the sway bar disconnected - still there.

[Luke]

@ Luke:
As stated, the car has been used in motorsport it's whole life and probably will be again, after I take a break this year.
The Teins were fitted 9 months ago and have been used at track days.
Why they were fitted is irrelevant
The warranty is not void
Only had stock suspension + Whiteline adjustable sways prior
I'm happy with how it performs/rides on the road. Yes, it's a firm ride and yes, it's a sports car.
It's the cr@p roads that have brought out the noise

If anyone tries to tell me that these things are no good for street, no good for track or come standard with clattering noise, then they can give me a full refund and re-fit the stock suspension!

I seem to be an island here as nobody else is fessing up to noises from Flex Zs. From my research on the web, many have problems with macstrut types (upper bearing problems) and pillow ball mounts - neither of which apply here.

I don't want to disappoint you by this but I have read the warranty conditions for various motorsport and performance grade products I have bought in the past and they all state that noises or vibrations generated are normal as they are not tested for NVH blah, blah, blah.
This particular exert is from fulcrums warranty terms for Tein products. I'm sure other suppliers will have similar terms for their products.

"Conditions, under which the warranty is void
Unavoidable noise due to the characteristic(s) of the product, including but not limited to the sound generated by the pillow ball or the flow within the damper.
The product is used for off-road purposes or racing type competitions or activities."

So based on their warranty statement and my experience with the previous product Street Flex, I am telling you they come with the associated noises.
You may not want to here it, buts that's how the Teins just seem to be.
They would have no proof about the use in motorsport, but they do cover themselves for noises generated by the product.

Keep chasing it with the supplier, especially the testing of the shocks.
But good luck getting a refund if they can't resolve it. If it was within the first 3 months or 1000kms you would have had a good chance of a refund, but I doubt any supplier would take back a performance based product used for 9 months over a noise complaint.

[JBT]

"Conditions, under which the warranty is void
Unavoidable noise due to the characteristic(s) of the product, including but not limited to the sound generated by the pillow ball or the flow within the damper.
The product is used for off-road purposes or racing type competitions or activities."

Luke, there's a small thing called the Australian Consumer Law. From the Tein booklet and, after the thank you for purchasing this product: "This product is designed for OFF ROAD USE ONLY." and "THIS PRODUCT MAY NOT BE INSTALLED IN VEHICLES dríven ON PUBLIC ROADS." and "Suspension noise during vehicle operation is normal....". However, you don't get the booklet until after you buy the product - in my case installed in the vehicle. Four problems here: None of this info is provided to the customer pre-purchase, it is in conflict with the warranty conditions, the product is not fit for the purpose for which it was sold to the customer and the product is not of acceptable quality i.e. safe, lasting, with no faults.

Keeping this on subject: The 'knock' was limited to the left rear initially, then it mysteriously stopped and moved to the right rear after the car had been in the workshop for four days.

I do not accept the noise as normal - neither is the suspension supplier/installer. No other people, that I'm aware of, report having this noise with Flex Z or any other coilover in an NC.

Coilovers are being dyno tested today.

[Luke]

I know that this would be a pain, but do you still have the original struts?
One way to know for sure is to put them back in and see if the noise goes away.

[JBT]

No, original suspension is gone. Easy enough to find some though. If I was doing this again it would be Konis + Eibach/Progress + FCM bump stops or something along those lines. It had been Plan A until these Tein Flex Zs came along. Live and learn I guess.

Today the problem reached a bizarre zenith. Now in the 4th week of this rectification hell...even I didn't imagine how silly it could get. To be continued...

[JBT]

Well the rear coilovers have been removed and inspected and the dampers were tested on a suspension dyno. No fault or noise found. Coilovers refitted and knock still there.

More fault finding and the two upper ball joints on the right rear were found to be a bit notchy with a little play and are being blamed for the knock noise. Why evident now? Because, I was told, "the Teins can amplify any noises from play in the suspension".

Rear ball joints have now been greased - I think I have a unique NC - grease nipples on all 8 rear ball joints! This wasn't supposed to happen but did. So, a full set of similar mileage links have been provided in case one of the modified ones fails.

All the above has been done under warranty by the agent/supplier/fitter to get to the bottom of the noise. I cannot fault their intentions and perseverance to resolve this and collateral issues.

No "knock" evident on the drive home. To be continued...

[JBT]

So, I was wrong. The Teins are fine. They got a really good workout today and no noises. All has been good for the last 500+ km since I got the car back on 15 Feb.

It looks like it was those rear suspension upper link ball joints that were the culprits. Worth checking them if you have an NC.

[hks_kansei]

Happy to hear since I have flex z lol.

But also not that shocked, they're substantially stiffer than stock, so will transmit forces elsewhere and amplify any small issues that may have been muffled on oem gear.

My NB has the occasional knock in the rear, but it also did that with the factory gear. (well, mazdaspeed springs on oem shocks)

[Vat]

So, I was wrong. The Teins are fine. They got a really good workout today and no noises. All has been good for the last 500+ km since I got the car back on 15 Feb.

It looks like it was those rear suspension upper link ball joints that were the culprits. Worth checking them if you have an NC.

Thanks for the follow up - I have an admittedly fairly dog-eared NB with more noises than the National Film and Sound Archive, but I've been really happy with the Tein Flex Z's so the idea that knocking was an issue was source of some concern.

If only I could find a solution for the knocking rear brake pads...