Q's about the willwood upgrade

[guss_bruss]

So after one of my slide pins decided to corrode and seize due to a broken seal I've decided it's time to overhaul the brakes. First course of action was to call Mx5 plus and the quote I got for them to recondition them, plus new pads and rotors is only $307 less than going willwoods in the front from 949racing and imported by mx5mania which also includes pads and rotors for the rear.

Now I know willwoods are overkill for a stock driveline Mx5 but if they are only $307 more than upgrading my existing nb8b brakes I don't see the reason to not spend the extra $307 now as I plan to go 250hp and track it more.

I would love to hear from current willwood owners about their experience with street driving willwoods (anyone dailying them?) also flyin' Miata says on their website if you have an abs model Mx5 you don't need a proportioning valve. Does anyone have any direct experience with an abs model and willwoods that'd be able to tell me their experience with or without the proportioning valve?

Thanks guys

[Tim_cyc03]

I have the V8roadster radial mount pro kit on an NA (front and rear) . My experience is track only with these so I'm not going to be to much help.

http://v8roadsters.com/shop/elite-brake-kit/

But I first suggest reading http://www.miataturbo.net/general-miata ... ost1230932

That thread will possibly answer all your questions.

My experience that may be relevant to you with them is:

1. The pads are ridiculously easy to change.

2. Know what brand pads you want to run and make sure they make a pad for the caliper.

3. You will stop better than anything else. (I'm sure AP would be better again)

Some more things to be aware of...

Just having a quick look at the 949 site it looks like they use the Dynalite caliper

http://949racing.com/Supermiata-1175-wilwood-bbk.aspx

Flying Miata now use the Dynapro

https://www.flyinmiata.com/flyin-miata- ... -7095.html

From reading the thread they talked a lot about caliper flex, and that the dynapro is meant to be a lot stiffer than the dynalite.

Also I would look at rotor options.

11.75 rotors rings for a 2 piece have about 2 Brand options I think (probably wrong).

1 is wilwood, either internal straight vane, internal curved vane or internal curved vane with slots.

2 is PFC, $400 per side, waiting for my next two spare sets of wilwoods to wear out before I step up and try these.


A bit disjointed but let me know if there is anything I can expand on that may help.

[Okibi]

Keen to know as well.

[greenMachine]

Depending on where you are, and the local requirements for rego inspections, you may want to be aware of the ADR status of the callipers you select. AFAIK, no Willwood is ADR compliant, and only one has a dust seal - not sure how much difference this makes in this context. I know of one Willwood setup that was removed because engineering it was either too expensive and/or not possible, this after being rejected at rego.

I use them in the racecar with ABS, I have to machine down the rotors to clear the callipers as I run 15s.

[Magpie]

I'm running the NB8B brakes on the track and they have lasted about 18 months before the piston seal became stuffed. The seal more than likely started to fail after a session I did not cool down properly on. I make sure each time I change pads I grease the slider pins.

How were the pads wearing by the way?

This is my 'stuffed' caliper. I has been suggested that the pad wear is almost typical for the style of brake that has been subjected to too much heat.
DSCN3591 by Eipeip, on Flickr

Pads/caliper from the other side. Even pad wear and no seal damage.
DSCN3590 by Eipeip, on Flickr

My comments on the Wilwoods.

1. The rotors are thinner than OEM. Not a big issue if rotors are not considered to be a consumable.
2. The setup is lighter than OEM. BIG BONUS if reducing unsprung weight!
3. Drilled rotors have a tendency to fail at the points where the holes are drilled. Counter argument is that high end sports cars like Porsche use drilled rotors with no issue.
4. Possible failure point where the rotor attached top the hat. Has been reported on the forum.
5. If tracking the car then you will need to look at ducting the brakes. Biggest 'killer' of brakes is heat, manage the heat first and foremost. How long before you are going up to 250 RWHP? I'm at 194RWHP and no real issues with the NB8B brakes
6. What is the price of replacement parts? NB8B OEM rotors are cheap as are stock pads. Consider the upkeep costs of both options.
7. Brake proportioning - good article http://stoptech.com/technical-support/technical-white-papers/proportioning-valves

[RS2000]

That picture shows dust boot damage, not piston seal damage. I've had dust boots like that, but when dismantled find that the piston seal is ok.
Best to put a full kit in anyway once dismantled. Cheers

[Magpie]

RS2000 that is what I will be doing, running new kits (inc pistons, sliders) through both calipers and then keeping them as spares.

[madjak]

My 11.75" Wilwood brake setup is based around the largest overall thermal capacity I could fit under a 15" rim whilst being lightweight and with the cheapest ongoing replacement costs. Braking capability and control is excellent and I've had zero issues with heat build up on the track and I've now done over 20 events on the same rotors and pads. For reference, my previous setup with the stock rotors and competition pads I destroyed in 7 events. Overall braking capability isn't that much different, my stock rotors with race pads could stop the car fine, but I have far more control with the bigger rotors. So far fewer lockups especially when cold.

Braking set up really depends a lot on the driver. If you are pushing hard and find the stock rotors getting cooked then you need larger rotors. If I factor in the amount of money I save running the larger/cheaper rotors, they pay for themselves in 2-3 years.

[guss_bruss]

Thank you everyone for the responses, I have been deeply reading that thread you linked me to on miataturbo.net Tim. I have sent Flyin' Miata an email and hopefully they can answer my questions surrounding the Dynalite vs Dynapro calipers.

My 11.75" Wilwood brake setup is based around the largest overall thermal capacity I could fit under a 15" rim whilst being lightweight and with the cheapest ongoing replacement costs. Braking capability and control is excellent and I've had zero issues with heat build up on the track and I've now done over 20 events on the same rotors and pads. For reference, my previous setup with the stock rotors and competition pads I destroyed in 7 events. Overall braking capability isn't that much different, my stock rotors with race pads could stop the car fine, but I have far more control with the bigger rotors. So far fewer lockups especially when cold.

Braking set up really depends a lot on the driver. If you are pushing hard and find the stock rotors getting cooked then you need larger rotors. If I factor in the amount of money I save running the larger/cheaper rotors, they pay for themselves in 2-3 years.

Where did you get your Willwoods from? currently im looking at ordering from Flying miata or Mx5 mania as they order through 949, would prefer Flying miata as they offer the dyna pro. That's very promising you are getting better results with the Willwoods.

I will update you guys when I hear back from Flyin' Miata and make my decision!

[madjak]

Where did you get your Willwoods from? currently im looking at ordering from Flying miata or Mx5 mania as they order through 949, would prefer Flying miata as they offer the dyna pro. That's very promising you are getting better results with the Willwoods.

Mine are a pieced together from various bits and pieces.

Front: 11.75" Wilwoods with a Dynapro Radial mount (from a BMW mini cooper S kit with custom spacers) - basically it is the same as the new TSE BBK.
Rear: 11.44" Honda Wilwood rotors and hats with stock caliper (on an offset plate)

The benefit of the larger 11.75" Wilwood rotors is that you can get the cheap $60 rotors. The 11" rotors are more expensive. The issue is fitting the bigger rotor and caliper under your rims so you need to check fitment.

The Dynapro radial mount has a thicker pad, plus the contact area is larger than a Dynalite, so pad life is probably doubled or tripled. I run exotic pads which didn't have the exact shape but there was one with the same dimensions and pin holes. The pad area just needed a small trim with an angle grinder to stop the pad from running on the rotor spokes. You can get pads that will fit though... just not the ones I run.

[chefie]

Hi guss

i have a set of the dynalites willwoods with the top spec red caliper and SRP rotors cost $1300 aud inc shipping, These are a fantastic upgrade to a na6/8 and NB8a front brakes, i have weighed the full set up and it is 4KG per corner can txt photos if interested

that's a whopping 4 KG per front corner, QFM added willwood dynalite A1RM and Comp 9 to their range and i have been very happy with the performance and ease of changing between track and road pads literally 5 minutes each corner

pads are same price as stock but a little thinner i.e 8mm material and the SRP rotors are only available ex USA, i would only go solids in the future and bleed is simple with the dual; chamber

great upgrade from my opinion

[Magpie]

Seen the photos of the weight difference! If after a weight saving then these are a good choice, however not in my budget just yet.

[guss_bruss]

Just heard back from Flyin' Miata

They've said all 2001+ US Miata's with ABS had an automatic proportioning feature but they are unsure about the AUS models. This is something which ill have to find out.

They've also told me the Dynapro and Dynalite brake pads are different and are not interchangeable so I'll have to do some research on what Dynapro pads are available cost effectively in AUS

They have suggested I should have a look at Flyin' Miata's "little big brake kit" which is the Powerlite calipers on stock rotors so atleast then rotors are available locally, has anybody used these before?

Have also heard Willwoods are not modplatable anymore, I got in contact with a modplate guy and he said he'd have to contact his Engineer buddies to see as laws have recently changed apparently. Does anybody know if this is even true or not?

Bit more research to do

[guss_bruss]

Depending on where you are, and the local requirements for rego inspections, you may want to be aware of the ADR status of the callipers you select. AFAIK, no Willwood is ADR compliant, and only one has a dust seal - not sure how much difference this makes in this context. I know of one Willwood setup that was removed because engineering it was either too expensive and/or not possible, this after being rejected at rego.

I spoke to a modplate guy today. Said he'd double check but he'd be more than happy to modplate them for me. When did you hear of this? Apparently laws have changed recently so not sure how up to date that info is.

[Tim_cyc03]

Powerlite calipers use a Wilwood 7912 pad shape.

Look at the brand of pads you want and see if they have it, they will all list a cross reference somewhere, if not here are the dimensions/pictures.

http://www.wilwood.com/BrakePads/BrakeP ... dtype=7912

I have these on the rear, I struggled to find pads in the brand that I wanted, be it Project Mu and PFC. However saying that Project Mu now make the pads (they don't list them on their site last time I looked, but I have a set sitting here so I know they are real.)

PFC don't make them, I checked with AUS, USA and Japan, and found a shape that was close, but it was an old lotus pad that they had no stock of. As Madjak does though there is always the grinder option.

Circo/winmax do make the shape, Cobolt do too, and I would make a guess that Hawk do also.

Also look at replacement rotors, I will not be using wilwood after the spares run out, but they are cheap in comparison.

I would look into it a bit further, and someone with greater knowledge of the word "moment" would be able to give you better advice, but I would compare the pad area of the powerlites, the moment and the rotor size to stock. Without doing any of this myself I think you might find there is not to great a difference. (could be completely wrong.)

Looks like the little big kit is 11 inch rotor max, so you loose the benefit of the cheaper rotors and the greater moment. (Think I am using that word right...?)

No matter which kit you go the pad wear will be excellent, you will be able to change pads in a few minutes and you will have more bling points.

Which state are you in for modplating?


When looking at importing you only want to do this once, so I would look 3 years down the track maybe... As in what size wheels will you be running, what power will you have, how much track work will you be doing?