Lachstock and Four Turbo Charged Cylinders ['04 NB SE]

[Magpie]

Happy to have another go

[ManiacLachy]

This has been a few weeks in the making, not yet complete, but this is a good a point as any for an update.

I've gone MegaSquirt!


New MSPNP-Pro ECU next to the stock ECU

It's a MS3 Pro PNP unit designed for the MSM from DIY Autotune (https://www.diyautotune.com/product/megasquirtpnp-pro-msm0405-for-04-05-mazdaspeed-miata/). I'm currently running on a slightly modified base map, the car started first go and runs fairly well, albeit a bit rich. The base map has a bunch of small details that need changing, the information is out there, mostly on MT.net, but you really have to search and read.

Firstly I wanted to install the Wideband (LC-2 w/ DB gauge - https://www.diyautotune.com/product/innovate-standalone-gauge-kit-w-lc-2-red-db-gauge-3796/) and a boost gauge (kindly borrowed from Lokiel) in order to see what the car is currently doing on the stock ECU. I did a few runs logging through the Innovate software, it looked like I'd spike at about 10psi of boost with my mods, which is higher than I was expecting. AFRs were OK, but I could see the lean spot around 5k RPM.

Dann's exhaust has a perfectly placed bung right at before the cat, and right under the shifter turret. The sensor screws in fairly easily after removing the bracing under the car, no need to drop the exhaust. Then the sensor cable can snake up shifter turret and under the rubber boot. I fed the wiring under the centre stack and into the passenger footwell.

You can see the sensor in the exhaust just below the shifter turret, and the cable snaking into the cabin - very well located!

I tapped into the power windows for my 12V and GND, when I use the switches I see a fluctuation in the gauge readings but windows aren't constantly in use so it shouldn't be an issue. Also worth noting, I suck at wiring - this is my first go at it and I am learning. I couldn't get the DB gauge to show a real value, but the sensor was working because I could see a real value in the Innovate software when connected via serial. I pulled the gauges out, before realising my mistake. Top Tip: along with wiring 12V and Ground to your gauge, ensure you wire in the signal!

So, I've been learning the basics of tuning for the last week or so. I've cleared the slate and started over once already, and probably will at least once again before I'm done. As you learn and make changes on changes on changes, the whole thing can get a little muddled, so starting fresh and applying the changes wholemeal can result in a clearer idea of what you're running and re-enforces your knowledge and familiarity of the system.

It's been a steep learning curve, and I've still got quite a bit to do and to learn.

Yesterday Lokiel and I attempted to use the MSLabs CAN WBO2 module (http://www.trackspeedengineering.com/Engine-Management/mslabs-can-wideband-module.html) to pass the digital WBO2 signal to MS, rather than rely on the analogue input which is slower and prone to signal noise. But, we couldn't get it to work with the DIY MS, neither on my car or his. So I'm sticking with the analogue for now. I pulled out the boost and DB gauges to reduce my footwell clutter, and gave the boost gauge back to Lokiel - I can see all the readings in TunerStudio now and I have faith in the outputs. I think I might pick up the Bluetooth adapter to allow me to use MSDroid on my phone for readings at a glance.


Footwell clutter - and I don't think this was the worst of it! I haven't been taking any passengers lately

Performance is definitely improved, the car pulls very strongly all the way through the range and the hesitation is GONE! I currently have a little bit of stumble on "tip-in", the car can buck a little, this will be something to work on tuning out (it's Accelleration Enrichment), but first I'll need to iron out my VE table, as AE functions on top of VE. I'm leaving Ignition Timing alone for now, I'll let an expert - hopefully Dann - tweak that on a dyno. For now I want to iron out the VE, get my AFRs where they should be.

Next up will be to upgrade the injectors, and re-tune for them. I've ordered some Flow Force 640cc EV14 injectors. They're well priced, latest injector technology and a good size for my power goals. And they're a plug-and-play unit with supplied pigtails.
http://www.trackspeedengineering.com/Fuel-Delivery/flow-force-640cc-ev14-injectors.html

[luzinit]

Wooohooo! Nice update. I've been looking at those ECUs recently as well, especially after seeing another forum member on here ditch an Adaptronic in favour of a MS3 (I think it was Lokiel actually...).

What exactly does one need from the DIY autotune site for our SE? Is it just the ECU and wideband?

Constantly torn between getting a CAI, full exhaust, injectors and ECU vs going all out and replacing the turbo and manifold also. What are your future plans for the car?

Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk

[Magpie]

Good news! Look forward to being able to take it for a spin again

[ManiacLachy]

Wooohooo! Nice update. I've been looking at those ECUs recently as well, especially after seeing another forum member on here ditch an Adaptronic in favour of a MS3 (I think it was Lokiel actually...).

What exactly does one need from the DIY autotune site for our SE? Is it just the ECU and wideband?

Yeah, Lokiel tipped me over the edge too! You'll probably want their Serial to USB adaptor too (https://www.diyautotune.com/product/usb-to-serial-adapter-works-with-tunerstudio/), unless your laptop has a serial port, but most don't these days. Oh, and you might want their EBC solenoid too (https://www.diyautotune.com/product/ebc-electronic-boost-control-solenoid-kit/) to allow MS to control boost. I already have a solenoid that I'll re-purpose so I didn't buy theirs.

Constantly torn between getting a CAI, full exhaust, injectors and ECU vs going all out and replacing the turbo and manifold also. What are your future plans for the car?

Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk

I'm still torn, I see Dann post about the twist mount on Facebook and the want for a 2560R is strong! But I think I'll ride the stock setup for what its worth and see how I feel.

But you could very easily get the ECU and injectors first and make the most of them, maybe get 190whp (that's a wild guess FYI) or so if you up the boost. Then if you decide you want to put on the exhaust and intake you can, or you can get a full turbo replacement combo, and not blow any investment.

People say get the ECU first, and they're right. I didn't though, and most others don't either. ECU is scary, bolt-ons are easy. But if you're willing to research and learn and not get too gung-ho on your own, the ECU isn't that hard. Worst case scenario, you get the car professionally tuned more than once for an evolving setup.

[ManiacLachy]

Good news! Look forward to being able to take it for a spin again

You're already in the books for another spin after the exhaust crack was found and repaired. But it'll need some professional work before it's ready for a full on blast, I don't trust my amateur fiddling that much!

[Lokiel]

:
Yesterday Lokiel and I attempted to use the MSLabs CAN WBO2 module (http://www.trackspeedengineering.com/Engine-Management/mslabs-can-wideband-module.html) to pass the digital WBO2 signal to MS, rather than rely on the analogue input which is slower and prone to signal noise. But, we couldn't get it to work with the DIY MS, neither on my car or his. So I'm sticking with the analogue for now.
:

This was my bad, I'd recently downloaded the .pdf instructions from the TrackSpeed Engineering site and there was only one page of instructions so this is what I was following when we tried to install the MSLabs Wideband O2 module.

Lachy viewed them on his phone and I wish I'd looked over his shoulder to see that there is now a 2nd page (and a few lines on the 3rd page) - the 2nd page contains additional configuration information and files needed to get it to talk to TunerStudio (similar to what I needed to do for the TinyIOx module).

I had it running on my car last night in under 10 minutes (GRRR - how long did we dick around with it? I even made a CAN High/Low cross-over harness, complete with crimped pins and connectors just in case they were wired the wrong way internally.)

Morale of the story: DON'T ASSUME that instructions you downloaded recently haven't been updated since then.

[IanR]

People say get the ECU first, and they're right.

100%, it will allow you to get the performance from the hardware you have, which may be enough (no chance but... ).

I think the 2560 being the optimum turbo idea has passed on, the reality is that with good ecu tuning, the next step up into 2860,2860rs, gtx2860-63 are just as easy to drive, spool up quickly but give greater headroom for easier/more efficient top end power, plus can be leaned on harder later when the motor is built.

The dyno plots coming out of Heatherbrae say bigger IS better!!! I drove Sam's stock motor with 2860rs at 265whp/230ishftpd and it was awesome!!!

[ManiacLachy]

EFR6258 is where it's at! Maybe one day ...

[The American]

EFR6258 is where it's at! Maybe one day ...

Much want!

[ManiacLachy]

Two updates today.

About a week ago I did a remote tuning session with NitroDann to ease a few gremlins in my tune and to ensure I'm running safely. Dann was able to connect to my laptop via a remote desktop app using my phone as a hotspot, he was then able to view and adjust my tune realtime while I manipulated the engine in neutral or driving about, the session lasted about an hour. There are still some issues in the tune, and we aren't close to making the full power (boost cut is back!), but that was expected and we achieved exactly what I wanted and that was a safe reliable tune that would keep me on the road for daily duties until I can get down to Newcastle for an in person tune.

A big issue I hope to have addressed with the remote tune is fuel consumption, my last 2 tanks have been ~10.5L/100kms , up from my recent average of ~8.5. I haven't yet run a full tank through so I'm not sure what we've achieved.

I do have an issue sometimes on a hot start, such as after driving for half hour and ducking into the shops then restarting - the idle will drop then raise then drop and stall. I suspect I can sort that with a little longer ASE Taper at the higher temperatures, I think it just needs to run a touch longer on hot startup and I can make that adjustment easily enough myself.

Dann was great to work with. Very patient. And if you've ever spoken with him, you'll know how good he is at explaining the intricacies of tuning and why he does what he does. This was my first real interaction with Dann and it gave me great confidence in trusting my car to him. Though he's not too wordy on the forums these days, on the phone (and I'm sure in person, too) he is fantastic and his depth of knowledge really comes across. Hoping to get south of the border in a month or two.

[ManiacLachy]

The second item is I have replaced my stock front SE sway bar with the Racing Beat 1.125" and "brace" hardware.

New sway bar!

A little while ago at a happy laps I traded cars with SlugDub and Magpie, quite different cars from mine and the suspension feel stood out to me as being fantastic. Their cars felt much sturdier and in comparison mine felt wallowy. SlugDub said he thinks my car needed some more spring rate, and that may well be the case, but I thought a bigger sway should help resist roll while keeping my suspension from getting too stiff. The larger sway is a recommended change regardless so I thought I would start there and add springs later if needed. Lokiel highly recommended picking up the brace hardware as well, and I took him at his word on that.
http://949racing.com/racing-beat-sway-bar-miata.aspx

The install wasn't to difficult, save for the fact that on the SE the cold-side intercooler pipe dips right under the sway bar brackets. With the stock brackets and bolts this isn't too bad, it's a tight fit but you can access the bolts and tighten/loosen them with small movements and a spanner. However the new bolts are long and with the brace hardware more access is needed so the pipe needs to be disconnected and moved out of the way. If you do this job, just move the pipe, don't think about it.

Disconnected cold-side intercooler pipe

The brace hardware is just aluminium blocks that slide over the bracket bolts and are pressed up against the subframe above the brackets, and should resist flex better. I've heard stories about twisted brackets and bolts without it, so it's good insurance. One side comes with a cut out for powersteering lines, but there were no lines in the way for me - that must be a USDM issue.

Sway bar bracket and brace hardware

The SE's rear sway bar is already a great size (14mm) and is a sought after item so I'm told, so I didn't need to swap that out, but I did pick up some stiffer durometer bushings, 95D urethane up from 70D rubber, they were only USD$11 so I figured I could grab them at the same time as the front bar. They really are quite a lot stiffer than the stock bushes, just getting them to open and slip over the bar was difficult!
http://949racing.com/14mm-urethane-rear-sway-bar-bushings.aspx

New(left)vs old(right) rear sway bar bushings

The end result? The car is certainly flatter through bends, and feels a bit stiffer but not too harsh. Feels good and solid. Though I need to take it to a track or the mountain roads for a good test. Maybe even a back to back comparison with Magpie and/or SlugDubs' cars again

[Magpie]

I think someone has an addiction....

Whilst I think my car is a little 'stiff' for daily use I was very pleased with the ride of your car, no wallowing but 'firm' enough to give you confidence to 'push'.

[ManiacLachy]

I think someone has an addiction....

Whilst I think my car is a little 'stiff' for daily use I was very pleased with the ride of your car, no wallowing but 'firm' enough to give you confidence to 'push'.

I can quit any time I want! (OK, maybe a slight addiction )

My thinking is that the sway should give better handling on turns, but by leaving the springs alone keep the ride on the nicer side of things.

[ManiacLachy]

I just found a couple of videos that really show the effectiveness of the bracing hardware with the Racing Beat sway bar. There's a before and after, and you can really see how much movement there was on mounting point before, vs how solid it is afterwards.





I am loving the feel of the car with the sway bar, the ride is fantastic!

In other news, my first full tank of petrol after the remote tune returned 9.5L/100km, so still not great. I was hoping for better, but there's only so much that can be done remotely. It just stresses to me that I need to get down to Newcastle ASAP.