Engineers Certificate/ P plater conversion

Jimmynb · Postby **Jimmynb** » Sat Jul 30, 2016 6:08 pm

I have always been told that converting your mx-5 to turbo requires a engineers certificate and is illegal on your Ps. However, I stumbled across this:

According to the RMS P platers are restricted from driving cars that:

•Have a power to weight greater than 130kw/t
•Have had significant engine Modifications

Screen Shot 2016-07-30 at 16.57.41.png

To find out what a "Significant Engine Modification" is there is a document that states

A significant engine modification is that which requires a compliance certificate.

Screen Shot 2016-07-30 at 16.59.42.png

Screen Shot 2016-07-30 at 16.59.57.png

Further in this piece of legislation is states that if you are converting your car to turbo and it came with a factory turbo option in the same make and model then you do not require a compliance certificate.

Screen Shot 2016-07-30 at 17.00.46.png

Therefore according to this I can convert my nb mx5 to turbo without the need of a compliance certificate correct? Therefore assuming I restrict the power to less than 130kw/t I can drive this on my Ps.

Evidence is in the screenshots.

Does anyone have any evidence to prove this wrong?

Thanks guys.

It does not seem right in my head.

bruce · Postby **bruce** » Sat Jul 30, 2016 7:06 pm

Talk to an engineer. He is the one who has to approve it.

Jimmynb · Postby **Jimmynb** » Sat Jul 30, 2016 7:08 pm

According to my sourcing, you may not need an engineer to approve it.

bear2230 · Postby **bear2230** » Sat Jul 30, 2016 7:55 pm

You need it to be engineered to be legal, End of story.
If you don't and you hit a BMW or even worse a person you have zero insurance:
You won't find a dodgy engineer. They don't exist.
Expect 2k for engineering and probably the same again to make the rest of the car up to scratch for the engineer to pass it. They go over everything. brakes,suspension, seats, cages, ground clearance. tyre width and even noise of the exhaust.
You also have to pass emissions at the RTA and they let nothing through that isn't perfect.

Just buy an SE. They are P plate legal and quite cheap now compared to turbo charging yourself. Then give it to Dann.

Jimmynb · Postby **Jimmynb** » Sat Jul 30, 2016 8:07 pm

Im not looking to do anything dodgy. I just cannot find any evidence to suggest that I need an engineers certificate

Postby **NitroDann** » Sat Jul 30, 2016 8:28 pm

The legal interpretation is that its ok to put the OEM turbo engine into a chassis that could have come with it, however your particular one didnt.

IE you can turn your car into a dead stock SE and drive it, legally.

Dan

davekmoore · Postby **davekmoore** » Sat Jul 30, 2016 8:34 pm

"Further in this piece of legislation is states that if you are converting your car to turbo and it came with a factory turbo option in the same make and model then you do not require a compliance certificate."

This doesn't sound right. Changing the turbo on an SE or SP might be ok. Adding a turbo to a normally aspirated car probably isn't, and would probably be considered a significant modification.

bruce · Postby **bruce** » Sat Jul 30, 2016 9:53 pm

U ask an Engineer to confirm your assumptions.
You can tell the copper who pulls u over that the guys on the forum said it was OK.

hks_kansei · Postby **hks_kansei** » Sun Jul 31, 2016 9:43 am

In Vic you are correct in that if a model of car came out with a certain engine option from factory you can fit it without engineering.

It's quite common with old holdens converting to v8 or putting a v8 into an MGB.

But it a not as simple as just an engine swap, the fine print is that you also need to fit all the other parts that factory turbo came with, so on am mx5 that's shocks, springs, bracing, gearbox, diff, brakes, and whatever other bits the SE had.

Also, pretty sure it needs to be the same age as the car with he turbo, ie: no SE around in 1999 so no "factory option" for that chassis.
But for an nb8b it should be fine, since it was sold at the same time as he SE.

Also worth noting the swap must retain all the pollution gear as fitted to the SE.

Once done, you fill out a change of vehicle details form and give it to vicroads with a stat Dec saying "I've done what I need to to be legal"

hks_kansei · Postby **hks_kansei** » Sun Jul 31, 2016 9:46 am

The reason it's not done often is because with all the time you'd spend swapping everything, and th money on all the little bits and pieces,you'd likely end up spending similar money to if you'd just bought an SE to start with (and after all that you can still get a defect and have to deal with engineers anyway, where at least the SE is factory and relatively defect proof)

hks_kansei · Postby **hks_kansei** » Sun Jul 31, 2016 9:48 am

Ignore all that.

Just saw you mentioned RMS so I'm assuming you're in NSW..

If you live in albury my post may be relevant :p

Alex 2550 · Postby **Alex 2550** » Thu Aug 11, 2016 5:10 pm

hey mate just saw your post firstly i like that you have put effort in doing research and not just jumping on asking question :NETPOINTZ:

for that.
ok i will be gentle here but take it from someone that has done what you are trying to do (and i was a mechanic in nsw) when i was on my P's............ don't do it!.
its not easy to hear when you have your mind set on it i know and i was told not to and ignored it and wish i hadn't.
some reasons to keep in mind,
* it is a significant engine modification, so straight up for P's do not pass go do not collect $200. if you need more info on why PM me.

* (ignoring above) you go and do it keep it under the power to weight ratio and can still get defected if the police feel it is a significant engine mod. (it is) also if the police are unsure on something they will deffect you, it sucks but it keeps unsafe cars off the road. this will require engineers for the turbo system which will require emissions testing, possibly nb8b brakes and im guessing you haven't been to an engineer before but you cant walk in and say "engineer my turbo Ol chap" he must inspect the entire vehicle.

* figure out how much it will cost (im going on the cheap) lets say turbo system $500, computer $1,000, misc parts $500 (oil lines, brackets, turbo lube, different heat range spark plugs, fluids ect), tuning $500. Also keep in mind if you haven't done this before there is always something that pops up and becomes a pain such as running ic pipes, air con line is in the way and fouls on something, snap 2 studs getting manifold off ect.
so lets say $2500 estimated roughly above plus your time if not add $100 an hour x a s*&^ load of hours. now add 50% minimum for S*#@ happens like clutch slips and needs replacement, rings are worn and extra pressure causes every seal to leak and rebuild is now on the cards. now your at $3750+, now think if you get pulled over and told you need engineers you need possibly brakes $300, engineers $1,000-2,000. so your now over $5,000+fines+ territory for a back yard turbo job and would be getting up near one of Danns awesome jobs or a good chunk towards SE (still needs to go to dann

)which will give better financial return if you sell it as it is (used loosely) "special" and not a back yard turbo job and if staying under power to weight ratio the car wont be that special anyway but will go pssssht

. Don't get me wrong we don't mod cars to make a profit i lost $45,000 just on my WRX (yes serious) but keep your plans proportional to your income and if your young and on your P's there is more to life than saving for car parts, go out and enjoy the best years of your life.

* collecting parts cheap takes time by the time you get them all, get them installed, save the money for dyno you will nearly be off your p's, keep that in mind.

you have a great car already but if turbo is the only way to go for you buy an SE enjoy it for what it is then when off your P's take it to Dann.
If you are strongly attached to your car and don't want to get rid of it enjoy it for what it is and when off your P's do it properly talk to the same engineer at the start before doing anything, through the build and after. Also talk with someone like Dann about his manifolds and what he would do ect as he could probably do a turbo conversion now blindfolded.
If you need a project now focus on your suspension and brakes then later you have a great base to work from if you do go turbo. alternatively if you want more power look at fitting cams and a computer, very stealthy (compared to turbo) and you can use later if you go turbo so not a waste of money now.

I have owned some very quick jap cars (and others) with over 300kw at the wheels, spent a fortune doing it and loved it and the people i have met but if your car is purely a street car or occasional track car i want you to really think about this next sentence and trust me.
"it is funner to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow"