Newcastle/Hunter suspension adjustment experts?

IanR · Postby **IanR** » Sun Jun 19, 2016 2:21 pm

After 2000ks my front tyres are pretty much cooked on the outside and the inside... left and right fronts, left is worse.

First thing is to check the alignment, I think I may have too much toe in for the track/hillclimbs of late... bit guttered, was prepared for 8-10k but 2k... :evil:

Ill go back to the guys at Tyres N More Charlestown but be good to chat with a local alignment guru if we have one, anyone used Monaco at Kotara (does he do alignments?).

Dan · Postby **Dan** » Sun Jun 19, 2016 2:48 pm

That's a pretty impressive wear rate especially if you don't trailer your car to the track!

I'd probably get rid of the toe if I was driving hard enough to wear down a set of tyres in 2,000km, good idea to take it to an expert though since someone with the right experience can read the tyres and figure out what needs to be done.

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Xaviien · Postby **Xaviien** » Sun Jun 19, 2016 2:49 pm

Wow, that's really rough.

Ken (chrons_rotary, uptrend a few posts) says they do alignments at Monaco, and considering he's the fastest RWD (non clubman) car up at Ringwood in the pouring rain today, I would say he knows what he's talking about.
He also dailies a 280 hp hillclimb car, and is generally a nice and helpful kinda bloke. Might be worthwhile asking him what specs he uses and how much usage he gets from tyres.

On a side note, it's actually quite funny watching Commodores try to hillclimb in the wet. They just do what comes naturally to Commodores, drop fat skids.

PhilM · Postby **PhilM** » Sun Jun 19, 2016 4:37 pm

That sounds like a lot of tyre wear and as suggested an alignment issue, a lot of alignment places do not do up the alignment bolts tight enough and they come loose.
I run 0 toe and from memory 90 deg turn on the toe adjustment gives about .5 Deg toe in or out so you can make changes after you have it set at 0. Toe out gives better turn in which would suit Ringwood (but more toe out will cause tramlining on the highway)then you can adjust it back to 0 by reversing the adjustment.
Geoff at Monaco has done alot of alignments.
I now use Tyre Power at Toronto - Brett is a mechanic and an NC MX5 owner.

IanR · Postby **IanR** » Mon Jun 20, 2016 12:45 pm

alignment update:

The front left was the culprit it looks like, the camber had increased and the toe had gone out to the value of a total toe of 7.2mm, hence the wear.

Ive had the toe set at .5mm in and camber back to 1 degree both side, interestingly my rears cannot be adjusted to less than 2 degree with the std pins, must be the lower height from the koni sports.

This was all done back at Tyre n More at Charlestown, who did the original alignment. Only asked a small fee to sort it out.

Ill swap the fronts to back and monitor the wear, I think its time to get a second set of wheels with proper semi slicks too, just for track/hillclimbs.

Dan · Postby **Dan** » Mon Jun 20, 2016 12:57 pm

Am I reading it correctly that your rear is at 2 degrees of camber and the front is at 1 degree?

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IanR · Postby **IanR** » Mon Jun 20, 2016 8:11 pm

Unfortunately yes, not the end of the world, but far from ideal.

Dan · Postby **Dan** » Mon Jun 20, 2016 8:53 pm

Why not run at least 2 degrees on the front? (2.25 is probably closer to ideal relative to 2 degrees in the rear).

I'd question the experience of someone who leaves a car with double the camber at the rear compared to the front.

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RS2000 · Postby **RS2000** » Mon Jun 20, 2016 9:11 pm

Dan wrote:I'd question the experience of someone who leaves a car with double the camber at the rear compared to the front.

Factory settings are almost that, to make the car orientated towards understeer, rather than oversteer.

Dan · Postby **Dan** » Mon Jun 20, 2016 9:51 pm

RS2000 wrote:
Dan wrote:I'd question the experience of someone who leaves a car with double the camber at the rear compared to the front.

Factory settings are almost that, to make the car orientated towards understeer, rather than oversteer.

I think the 949 guide sums it up pretty well in saying "The OEM alignment numbers with more rear camber than in front, are designed to induce a bit of understeer. Lawyers ultimately dictate the OEM alignment, not the clever engineeers that designed the suspension."

See: http://949racing.com/miata-race-alignment-info.aspx

They do suggest running a larger than stock front sway bar to reduce oversteer with their settings but you keep in mind the polar opposite settings since they are suggesting a 1.4:1 F/R split rather than a 1:2 split.

Even with a stock sway bar you shouldn't need to run DOUBLE the amount of camber at the rear to balance the car out especially on a car that is running aftermarket suspension.

Each to their own though, suspension settings are a personal thing.

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RS2000 · Postby **RS2000** » Mon Jun 20, 2016 10:20 pm

I agree with what you say Dan. I myself run -3 front & -2.5 rear, but it is a track only car.

Manufacturers orientate towards understeer bias because it is much safer for the average mum & dad driver - & of course the young inexperienced.
Nothing wrong with an alignment shop sticking to that, especially if the owner didn't want any extra neg on the front.

Dan · Postby **Dan** » Mon Jun 20, 2016 10:46 pm

Yeh, I never said running more camber at the rear doesn't make sense for some purposes but double the camber at the rear seems excessive to me.

Maybe they just did what the owner asked for like you said, if that's the case hopefully they explained the downside of the alignment especially to someone who's driving on the track.

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Roadrunner · Postby **Roadrunner** » Mon Jun 20, 2016 11:16 pm

Hey Ian, What height are you at at the pinch welds front and rear?

Last time I got an alignment they couldn't get any more than 1.5degs camber in the front, so set it to 1.5 all round.
Was hoping for 2 in the front and 1.5 in the rear and wondered if its my ride height?

PhilM · Postby **PhilM** » Tue Jun 21, 2016 6:00 pm

If you pull back on Max Caster in the front you can get more camber. I used to run maxed out at -2F and -2.5 R but chewed the insides out of the rear tyres especially as I did a lot of runs with 2 up and a loaded boot and driving to WPk. It is OK for track car on Trailer. I Now run 1.5 all round, Max caster.

Roadrunner · Postby **Roadrunner** » Tue Jun 21, 2016 10:24 pm

Thanks Phil, that's good to know regarding the castor relation to camber.

I'm sure I had -2degs in the front at one stage so was confused when they said they couldn't get more than -1.5 last time around. That may explain it.
Trying to find old print outs to confirm my memory is correct.