Lachstock and Four Turbo Charged Cylinders ['04 NB SE]

Chat to do with your MX5/Miata/Eunos Garage Ride(s).
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ManiacLachy
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Re: Lachstock and Four Turbo Charged Cylinders ['04 NB SE]

Postby ManiacLachy » Thu Jun 16, 2016 9:58 am

Xida's ship with an extra bushing to go in the front shocks if you're running a larger diameter tyre than stock. The rear shocks already run this additional bushing. This bushing goes under the tophat, on top of the bump-stop, effectively lengthening the shock, giving the wheel additional clearance from the chassis at full bump travel.

Great, I thought, I'll just pull the front shocks and pop those in! So one weekend, I threw the car up on stands and pulled the front shocks, only to find that the top nut to the shock is a jam-nut configuration where two nuts screw together to lock in place, and these nuts were very thin. Too thin to get a wrench on the bottom nut and turn the top nut. Apparently bikes have nuts like these and bike stores sell what is called a "cone spanner", essentially a very thin spanner. Thin is fine, I don't need to apply a ton of torque to these nuts, so the weaker strength of the wrench doesn't matter. I went to 5 bike stores looking for a 19mm cone spanner and no-one sold that size. I found 16mm, 18mm, 20mm, 21mm and more, but no 19mm. I had to put the shocks back in having accomplished nothing :cry:

I mentioned my woes in the "s#%ty things that happened this week" thread, and Pezchops so very kindly came to my rescue. That very day at work he ground down a spare 19mm spanner to 3mm thick and dropped it in my letter box before I got home! :shock: That is quite frankly bloody amazing! I am extremely grateful to him. That's the kind of community we have here, and you don't see that anywhere else.

So, I had Thursday and Friday off work last week, I had to do an airport pick up on Thursday which would wipe out half of my day, but figured this was my chance to get some work done, so I booked an alignment for Friday morning - I hadn't had the car aligned in over a year, not sice Automotive Plus had it done as part of my control arm replacements following my QR incident, and on Wednesday night I put the car up on stands to get an early start on Thursday morning.

I quickly pulled the front shocks and armed with my awesome new thin spanner, dismantled the first shock.

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The Spanner of Grattiude in action

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Front Xida disassembled - looks like I didn't take a good shot of this, even though I pulled them appart multiple times

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Additional Bushing stacked

After all of this, I found I had a problem! :shock: With the added bushing, the distance between the tophat and the spring perch was increased - duh! This meant that less preload was need to hold the spring captive, in fact, to hold the springs captive with almost no preload I had to wind the perch so far up as to only have a few mm left in reserve. It would be touch and go if there would be enough left to achieve my ride height! Of particular concern was the drivers side as it required a few mm extra preload to even the ride heights. :cry:

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Perch location needed to hold the springs captive with the additional bushing - not much margin for pre-load!

At this point I was really running out of time. I had work to do on the rears, and I had to have the car all set to roll the next morning to get to my alignment appointment. I didn't have time to test the shocks with the bushings only to find I didn't have enough threads and to redo all the work if I had to.

So I put off making a decision on the fronts and go to work on the rears. :mrgreen:

I ordered some shock spacers from Flyin Miata. These are around 1/8 inch thick and are said to give 1/4 inch rise in ride height, they go between the chassis and the top hats, they just slide over the tophat screws. I wanted these because it would mean I could run less pre-load and maintain the same ride height. I would have used these in the front, but you can't use these and a shock tower brace, there simply isn't enough thread on the tophat screws to use both, and as the SE's brace is integrated with the catch-can I wasn't able to remove it at this point. At the very least in the rear it would mean I wouldn't need to fully bind the rear helper.

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Spacer on top of the rear Xida

Thankfully, these were a simple install. Just lower the shocks to clear the chassis, remove the plastic gasket, slip on the spacers, then put the gasket back on top, and reinstall! Reduce pre-load on the spring and bingo bango bongo, done!

Well not actually. I had a theory. :idea: 8)

They say when installing coilovers you should raise the control arm with a jack untill the weight of the conrer is completely held by the jack - the car will raise from that corner's jack stand, this simulates the cars resting position when on the ground, and then you tighten and torque all your bolts. This will reduce any binding of the bushings. When I've done this in the past, I've only done it to the bolts I loosened to remove and replace the shocks, I did not loosen and re-tighten any other bolts. Today I wanted to do all control arm bolts, even the camber bolts - I was getting an alignment in the morning so I didn't care if I messed up my settings. I loosened all the bolts, jacked the corner then torqued them all down again. The upper control arm inner bolts were noticeably tight, and the movement there seemed quite restricted before loosening.

Anyway, now the rears were done! :)

It was getting dark, and my garage is no place to work at night with only a single overhead florescent for light. So I made a decision, I would not run the extra bushing. If after the alignment I still had issues, I could either order longer main springs, or I could get a catch can from NitroDann, throwaway my shock tower brace and get another pair of FM spacers. I resembled the two front shocks once more, ready for a hasty install in the morning and called it a day.

Stay tuned for the epic conclusion! :!:

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Re: Lachstock and Four Turbo Charged Cylinders ['04 NB SE]

Postby Magpie » Thu Jun 16, 2016 10:25 am

ManiacLachy wrote: and Pezchops so very kindly came to my rescue.

He does that every dodgy day, and to my surprise he has presented me a 'magic box' that I treasure. This will go to WTAC with me :)

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Re: Lachstock and Four Turbo Charged Cylinders ['04 NB SE]

Postby ManiacLachy » Thu Jun 16, 2016 11:09 am

Let's finish this thing off shall we?

Friday morning, up and in the garage at 630, when there's juuuuuust enough light to work. I have 2 hours to install the front shocks, and set my ride height, before I need to head off to the alignment! :shock:

I installed the shocks using the same method as I used on the rears, loosening all control arm bolts before jacking the control arm and torquing the bolts. Only I couldn't crack the camber bolts this time. Even with my breaker bar! There just wasn't enough room for the arm to clear the floor while the car was on stands. I did the best I could with the remaining bolts, took a guess at the preload, threw on the wheels and lowered the car to the ground.

A quick run to the servo to top up the tyre pressures and home to measure the heights. A few adjustments required, then off for another lap of the block to settle the springs and re-check the heights. I think I made one more slight change, but didn't have time to lap and measure - I was out of time I had to leave to get to the alignment. I didn't even have time to reinstall the splash guard, but I wouldn't really need it right away. The good news is I had considerably less additional pre-load on the drivers side now, and less over all on both sides of the rear thanks to the spacers. It seemed that by loosing all the bolts I had fixed my issue, or at least alleviated it. 8)

I took a copy of 949's Dual Duty alignment specs http://949racing.com/miata-race-alignment-info.aspx with me to Leda Suspension, and talked them over with Bruce. He's really knowledgeable and has done many MX-5s, off the top of his head he knew what specs he'd recommend for the car and purpose, and he knew the car's limitations. He agreed pretty much with 949's specs and I left the car with him.

4 hours later (!) the car was ready. Bruce told me that it took so long because the alignment I'd been running was quite extreme. Apparently I was running more than -2 degrees camber in the front, I can't remember how much, but close to -3 degrees. And I was running a crap ton of caster. We don't know how these were achievable, normally stock MX-5 control arms can't reach these numbers. I don't know how much of this was the previous alignment and how much of it was my fiddling and driving, but I'm glad we sorted it out.

I can't say enough good things about Bruce, if you're on the Northside of Brisbane, I recommend taking your car to him. The results were awesome. Nice turn in, great handling. It's so much better.

And I haven't had any more scrubbing. I've deliberately taken a few dips with some pace, and I've heard the bumpstops squeak as they engage, but no scrubbing! I think this was due to the excessive caster I was running. I think the suspension axis was off line with all that caster, and instead of moving into the deepest part of the wheel well, it was running towards the front edge where it was shallower. Can anyone confirm this theory? I don't quite know enough in this area. :?

The splash guard is back in now. My ride height is all sorted. My damper settings are where I like them. And I'm loving the ride. Some people crap on about massive levels of refinement, liking it to a luxury car like BMW's or Porsche's, but it's not that good. This is still an MX-5, it's a light weight sports car and it handles like it. Bumps are still felt, my girlfriend will still not love it, but for me, it's great. As a testament to my happieness, the trunk lining is all back in place! That hasn't been the case for about 6 months now!

Smaller wheels with tyres with larger sidewall would enhance the ride, and they're on my shopping list. If the car ever makes it to Weekend Toy instead of Daily Driver I'll look into uprating the springs and running a bigger sway. But for now, I'm very happy, as a mainly street dríven sports car, it's great!

:NB8B:

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Re: Lachstock and Four Turbo Charged Cylinders ['04 NB SE]

Postby ManiacLachy » Thu Jun 16, 2016 11:12 am

Magpie wrote:Hopefully you get it sorted out. Interested in the feedback on the 949 setup.

If you get a moment on the big day you can have a lap or two and see what you think. Or really any time we run into each other you're welcome to have a try. I don't think these spring rates will be right for your driving though :wink:

Magpie wrote:
ManiacLachy wrote: and Pezchops so very kindly came to my rescue.

He does that every dodgy day, and to my surprise he has presented me a 'magic box' that I treasure. This will go to WTAC with me :)

Yep, I don't know what we'd do without him! Glad he's on our side :beer:

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Re: Lachstock and Four Turbo Charged Cylinders ['04 NB SE]

Postby Magpie » Thu Jun 16, 2016 11:15 am

Good suggestion to try your car out. You will need to negotiate with Steampunk for seat time in mine, he is the controller of the keys :)

Good news on the suspension, you were never really happy with the HD's. You are now an expert in changing dampers :)

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Re: Lachstock and Four Turbo Charged Cylinders ['04 NB SE]

Postby ManiacLachy » Thu Jun 16, 2016 11:22 am

Magpie wrote: you were never really happy with the HD's. You are now an expert in changing dampers :)

That's an understatement regarding the HSDs. But that's behind me now.

And god yes, I can whip those shocks out in no time now! You handled the fronts for me during the initial install of the HSDs, and since then I'd done the rears a number of times, but never the fronts. Between removing the HSDs to install the Xidas, pulling them and re-installing them when I couldn't undo the top nut, and removing and reinstalling them including a few fitment tests last week, I'm now very confident on all 4 corners!

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Re: Lachstock and Four Turbo Charged Cylinders ['04 NB SE]

Postby slug_dub » Thu Jun 16, 2016 2:40 pm

Great info about your experience with the Xida's! Very glad to see you're finding the suspension to your liking now. I'm also going to put my hand up to have a bit of a drive sometime! :mrgreen: :beer:
The American wrote:hella sic stance flushing pard harker yolo something something.

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Re: Lachstock and Four Turbo Charged Cylinders ['04 NB SE]

Postby ManiacLachy » Thu Jun 16, 2016 3:18 pm

I'm sure we can work something out :wink: I'll swap you keys for a bit next time we catch up, I haven't experienced an NA yet.

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Re: Lachstock and Four Turbo Charged Cylinders ['04 NB SE]

Postby SKYHI » Thu Jun 16, 2016 4:07 pm

Good to hear you're happy with the outcome. I remember reading about the Xidas a few years ago when they were in development, but we always ran a more cost effective solution on the race cars, rather than the high end stuff.

I'm reasonably happy with the MCA blues in my SE. There's a certain harshness to the ride but i think it's more to do with the 205/40 series tyres than the shock. Will eventually change to a 205/50 or 225/45 15" tyre to give a bit more compliance.

Really need to catch up with some of you Brissy guys soon.

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Re: Lachstock and Four Turbo Charged Cylinders ['04 NB SE]

Postby Nevyn72 » Fri Jun 17, 2016 8:48 am

I don't know Lachy, you seem to have some really bad Karma when it comes to suspension! :|

I'm glad you're finally (mostly) happy with the Xidas, although I'm sure it must have hurt on the $$$$ front with the current exchange rate......
Just means you'll have to wait that little bit longer before doing the ECU I suppose. :wink:
"A Convertible has a top you can put down when the weather's nice...... A Roadster has a top you can put up when the weather's bad."

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Re: Lachstock and Four Turbo Charged Cylinders ['04 NB SE]

Postby ManiacLachy » Fri Jun 17, 2016 9:08 am

Exchange rate wasn't toooooo bad. I haven't looked at it since, but at the time it was an improvement on where it was a month prior, I thought it was near it's peak. I have no idea what it is now, if it's improved I don't want to know!

What did suck was GST and import duty. Ow! :shock: I did not factor for an additional 15% on my order. I've shut all that out of my mind now though. La-la-la-la-la :mrgreen:

Money isn't my biggest issue for the ECU (though it's not a trivial matter), my partner is. :oops:

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Re: Lachstock and Four Turbo Charged Cylinders ['04 NB SE]

Postby ManiacLachy » Sun Jun 19, 2016 9:28 am

Had a great drive yesterday, all through the Sunshine Coast hinterlands. A good friend recently moved to Norway with his fiance, but left his R32 Skyline in the garage, back for a brief 3 week holiday and desperate for a good drive.

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Pitstop in Maleny

We met at his folk's place in Alexandra Headlands, headed inland to Montville, then down through Maleny, Belthorpe, Woodford and ended up at the bottom of Mount Mee in Daybro. It was a great day for it, a few wet patches on the ground, but nothing too much, the weather was great and the scenery fantastic. We didn't run into tourist traffic until we hit Mt Mee in the afternoon, they drive so slow! I got a bit fed up with the crawl on the way down Mt Mee, and did a loop back along Ocean View road, which was a great empty run and let us have a second shot at the final down hill section. The highlight of the day was the Belthorpe-Range road, which neither of us had dríven before, great road, lots of hairpins and switch backs, but kinda narrow in places - you have to be alert!

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GPS route of the run + my friend's trip home up the freeway

I can confirm suspension is working well! Those roads aren't the smoothest, but I had no scraping and no unduly harsh rebounds.

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Re: Lachstock and Four Turbo Charged Cylinders ['04 NB SE]

Postby ManiacLachy » Wed Jun 22, 2016 6:53 pm

2 year anniversary!

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Re: Lachstock and Four Turbo Charged Cylinders ['04 NB SE]

Postby KevGoat » Wed Jun 22, 2016 9:30 pm

Congrats!! :mrgreen:

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Re: Lachstock and Four Turbo Charged Cylinders ['04 NB SE]

Postby ManiacLachy » Fri Aug 12, 2016 10:22 am

For the past 6 months, or more, I've had a hollow thump/thunk when going over uneven bumps, or when taking a bump on a curve. The sound didn't occur when going over a straight bump that hit both sides of the car evenly. My first thoughts were it was a suspension issue, however the sound didn't go away with the install of the Xidas, so I figured maybe control arm bushings :? But they all looked OK. I asked Auto+ to take a look at the last service, but they couldn't replicate the sound, and they saw no issues.

Then about a month ago, the noise got more prominent, it occurred more easily and it suddenly dawned on me, that what I was hearing was the exhaust hitting the diff! I threw the car up on stands and the exhaust was as loose as a wet noodle, thanks to a crack in a weld just after the resonator. It was really floppy, so much that I decided not to drive the car again until it was fixed.

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The crack

The exhaust came with a brace to hold the mid-pipe to the gearbox for additional support, this fell off the car a year or so ago and I did not replace it. Which probably did the exhaust no favours, so basically the crack was my fault for not re-attaching the brace. However, there was an unused rubber hanger on the car just after the rear/muffler section of the exhaust began, as in the rubber was attached to the chassis, but there was no arm on the exhaust to link them. This seemed an oversight in my opinion, and would have helped support the exhaust.

Anyway, I took the car into Rob Bliss Exhausts for repair, they quickly reattached the brace, and added the hanger to connect to the unused rubber. Immediately the car felt better, power I didn't realise had bled away was back! Spool and response was excellent! I guess the crack and general floppiness was causing turbulence and affecting the flow of the exhaust, and ultimately the power. But it was better now! Unfortunately the SE/MSM "hesitation" was back with a vengeance too.

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Reattached mid-pipe brace

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New hanger

Slugdub, Magpie, you guys didn't get to feel the full effect of the car at happy laps! You'll have to have another go :wink:

Only problem was a massive increase in NVH, and a drone that was driving me nuts on the freeway. My car sounded like a horrible ricer-mobile. :oops:

Back on stands this Wednesday thanks to Ekka Public Holiday, I thought maybe the exhaust was too close to a heat-shield, maybe the extra bracing was transmitting more vibration, something. And .... the crack was still there! :evil:

Back to Rob Bliss yesterday, maybe there was a miscommunication last time? No hard feelings or anything like that, they quickly welded up the crack at no cost to me and I was back on the road.

And finally the car is perfect again. I've got my flow and power back, but with no drone or excessive NVH, just my nice normal burble and crackle. :mrgreen: Next time the car is in the air I'll grab a shot of the weld repair.


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