Calling alignment and set-up gurus

Postby **NitroDann** » Thu Jun 02, 2016 2:28 pm

Most people would be happy to just swap bushes and leave it.

Its a personal call.

RileyR · Postby **RileyR** » Thu Jun 02, 2016 3:01 pm

NitroDann wrote:Most people would be happy to just swap bushes and leave it.

Its a personal call.

If bushes will let me add the camber and pretty much solve the issue ill do that. If im going to start buying new lower control arms ($300!) and stuff im not going to be able to afford to make it to the track and may as well have 0 camber anyway!

RS2000 · Postby **RS2000** » Thu Jun 02, 2016 4:33 pm

Just a thought on another possibility & no damage...
If the left front can make well over 2deg, then it might already have offset bushes. The right side bush may be installed incorrectly or has rotated.
Cheers

smy0003 · Postby **smy0003** » Thu Jun 02, 2016 4:39 pm

Second hand control arms are dirt cheap if they do need replacing, but if they don't looked warped and bushes will get you the alignment you want then who cares.

RileyR · Postby **RileyR** » Thu Jun 02, 2016 7:47 pm

I'll take it apart and have a good look at the cause and hopefully be ready to go for the next event.

Is it a home job that can be done by an amateur slowly and carefully?

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smy0003 · Postby **smy0003** » Thu Jun 02, 2016 8:04 pm

Replacing control arms is fairly straight forward. Can't comment on bush replacement because I've never done it.

Magpie · Postby **Magpie** » Thu Jun 02, 2016 8:09 pm

Pulling out the lower control arms will require an alignment. You may get away with marking the alignment bolts, tie rods etc.

Bushes are easy if you have a press, however you can use a threaded rod, washes etc to make a bush installer. There is a thread on the forum on making one.

You will need the OEM data on where to measure, again this is only a Google search away.

datfreak · Postby **datfreak** » Thu Jun 02, 2016 8:10 pm

Another option could be extended ball joints - see the group buy here:
http://www.mx5cartalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?style=3&f=44&t=70556

This should get you the camber you want and keep the standard adjustment with the bonus of renewed lower ball joints.

RileyR · Postby **RileyR** » Thu Jun 02, 2016 10:28 pm

To be honest installing the bushes sounds beyond my mechanical skills. Looks like the bushes and labour combined will be upwards of $500

I like the sound of those ball joints being an easier option (and cheaper when labour is equated into the bushes).

Regardless of the current alignment, im going to give QR another crack this weekend because it will be 2 months until I can be on the clubman circuit again. I wont be reaching the full potential of the car, but the driver probably needs more work than the car anyway...

Magpie · Postby **Magpie** » Fri Jun 03, 2016 7:24 am

Open Sprints on Saturday? May see you as I'll be at general practice in the morning.

Depending on how old the bushes are they could also be a source of additional spring rate if they are binding. Simply when you take your damper out do the control arms fall away and be supported or do they hold their position?

Speaking from experience, you will be adapting your driving style to match the car and when you 'fix' the car you will have to adapt again. Whilst this might seem like a good idea it is not (my personal experience) as the baseline keeps moving. The car should remain a constant, this way you can see the driver improvement. Further, keeping the car a constant allows you to 'learn' what the car feels like and start to recognise handling issues. It has taken me a long time to learn this, not to mention numerous people who have chastised me over the past few years to finally understand. Proof is in the pudding, I have managed to get more consistent and faster this year by having more quality track time. Whilst I have had a relapse in the modding addiction (2 way diff) and went backwards learning to drive with it, in the end this has been a positive because I could understand what was going on and describe the problem.

The picture below is going through the dipper on the sprint layout with the 2 way (4.3) and a torsen (4.1) diff. With the 2 way I can get on to full power some 32m earlier than with the torsen. Whilst I could start to get on the throttle at about the same distance (914m), it had to be checked at about 50% due to loss of traction. However, was the inside wheel loosing traction because of a tyre issue or was the inside rear wheel not providing enough resistance for the torsen to work or was it suspension/sway bar/setup/line/driver issue?

The rear had the same suspension/alignment setup for some time, line had changed because I was getting faster through the dipper, issue had only showed up as my times lowered, tyres were the same as I had been using for awhile. The only real change was my times were getting faster, hence it was a case of changing the line through the corner (living with the issue) or finding a way to get on the gas and stay on it. Solution 2 way diff. Results, faster lap times.

However, the data also shows that I still need to work on my application of the throttle and avoid those little on/off events. You should either be on the throttle 100% or on the brakes. However when exiting the dipper with the 2 way, in 9m I went from 28% to 100% on the throttle with no hesitations!

Dipper_QR by Eipeip, on Flickr

The American · Postby **The American** » Fri Jun 03, 2016 7:25 am

My NA was exactly the same at factory ride height. There was no obvious past impact damage - keep in mind that the .5 of a degree or a full degree is not much, and these things were made to a price.

Once I lowered mine to about 115mm at the pinch welds, I could get 2 degrees on both sides at the front.

Google the bush install process. You could do it.

Magpie · Postby **Magpie** » Fri Jun 03, 2016 7:49 am

http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=490932

RileyR · Postby **RileyR** » Fri Jun 03, 2016 7:59 am

Thats a fair point Magpie, it may be hard to improve as a driver if the car is constantly changing.

Yeah Open Sprints - though it looks like it will be very wet

Im wondering what refund policy QR has... How do you enter the general practice? is it cheaper than the sprints? because as you know they cost an arm and a leg!

My car is on lowered springs and sits fairly low, was actually wondering if that might be one of the problems in regards to the camber.

Magpie · Postby **Magpie** » Fri Jun 03, 2016 8:54 am

I have packed the wet weather tyres for general practice

General practice is cheap, but there is no printed lap times nor 'classes'. Cars are divided into groups depending on the numbers there, could be 2/3 groups. If 2 groups it is tin tops and non tin tops (MX5's are tin tops), if 3 groups non tin tops, race cars, others. You will be on the track with some serious cars/drivers and will need to constantly check your mirrors.

General Practice is good for getting quality seat time, making setup changes and try new lines or work on a certain part of the track. For me it will be T1/T2 by carrying more speed, braking later/less and consistency.

RileyR · Postby **RileyR** » Fri Jun 03, 2016 9:58 am

Ive decided to opt out of this one (on again off again). I got full credit so can enter any other event when I can have car set up and im not driving in torrential rain (better use of my money I think). General practices might be the way to go for me as a cheaper option. Ive set up racechrono now with a gps so that should get me accurate lap times - so a lack of official times shouldnt be an issue. Are the general practices run on the clubman circuit? Im keen to stay on the same circuit so I can perfect it and see my improvements (hopefully)

Back on topic - I will do some research and see if I think I can do the bushes my self with some patience - It would save me a lot of money as ive been told id probably be charged 3hrs labour.