Whats happening to the MX5 racing??

[plohl]

double post failz...

[plohl]

How would you manage a cost limit? There are some very expensive builds at the moment for sale under 20k. Seems like it would have the complications of a points system.

I think Chris is on the right path with some basic rules - just need to keep working on it, and probably the hardest part get people to agree and implement it - especially interstate. If east coast could have the similar/same categories running, overall, the scene would get bigger.

[neilh]

I agree, if we could get there a consistent set rules across states would be a huge step in the right direction and unlock a range of benefits

[NitroDann]

Chris:

Forced induction + 7pts

Solved.

Lotus keep winning no matter what?

Lotus chassis +5pts

Ask anyone who plays competitive video games, nothing can't be balanced using a flexible points system.

[plohl]

I still think it could get too complicated but... something like this?



I think a standard 2f build, with built engine is under 100 points. I made all the values up, somethings cold be removed I suppose, like seats.

Anyway, attached is the spreadsheet - be interesting to see how many points everyone has. You just put a "y" in the column next to to mod and it'll added them up in the total row down the bottom. My car gets 54 pts

Everything has been written based on an mx5, assumed parts can be swapped between NA/NB with no penalty.

pointless.xlsx

[zossy1]

Dann, I love points. Yes you are right. But turbos, lotuses, etc are self evident. It's the less obvious stuff that's a challenge to police.

High compression Pistons?
Stroked engines?
Big cams?
ECU mods?

I was speaking with a tech inspector last weekend here, he said they have seen it all... Including false fuel tanks (for high-po racing fuel), switchable ECUs and tunes, and adjustable coilover shocks disguised to appear stock - all to cheat the points system.

This is why they need an army of tech inspectors. We don't have an army. All this stuff can be discovered but you're suggesting we implement a points system on an honour basis and IMO that isn't likely to wash.

[zossy1]

Lol, 110 points... And there are some significant mods my car has that you haven't listed ;)

[Dan]

Why not just settle on classes using the established CAMS rules (2B/2F), allow forced induction with a restrictor fitted, seperate it into under 2L and over 2L classes with FI making you over 2L and add an open class for people that don't want to follow the class rules?

That would keep 2.5L cars with the Turbo's but stop the turbos getting too crazy by enforcing a restrictor (people would probably argue against the restrictor rule until someone shows up with a turbo NC) and then the stock engine guys are together.

You could also do things like maybe open up Aero or make a small tweaks to the rules to accomodate common mods that people have already done.

[NitroDann]

Dann, I love points. Yes you are right. But turbos, lotuses, etc are self evident. It's the less obvious stuff that's a challenge to police.

High compression Pistons?
Stroked engines?
Big cams?
ECU mods

None of this stuff matters if the cars take points for power to weight, AND the power to weight is clearly displayed such that competitors can clearly see that they just got passed by a car with a lower or equal p/w.

Its really straight forward, you ecit the cirner behind another car which has a displayed power to weight lower than yours, your corner exit is the same and he hauls away down the straight, If you are both n/a 4 bangers its clear that there is something going on.

If this shows up as a problem for turbo because they are using their torque then thats fine, add some points for turbochargers.

Dann

[neilh]

Maybe also consider adding an entry level class, for people who are looking to enter the series, or do not want to go to the expense of building a 2F car. maybe something down the lines of stock cars, with modifications / upgrades allowed to Suspension, intake and exhaust only. keep it simple and cheap for people just looking to get into racing.

[Magpie]

127 (I choose little wing, saved 5 points)

Is the issue making racing more accessible or getting the retired people to come out of retirement? Making a new set of rules will never work. You find that the successful sports make very little changes to their rules as these are normally dictated by media coverage requirements. The sports that do not have the media coverage always seem to play with the rules to try and make everybody happy.

Having been involved in a sport that was constantly changing/modifying rules gets very frustrating and hence people loose interest. In motor sports people build a car to suit a set of rules (in general). I have found that the difference in the rules between WTAC (clubman), JapNats and the time attack series in Queensland are close and it is possible to comply with a few changes that are quick to make. For example in JapNats you are required to have a passenger seat to be in certain classes whereas in WTAC (Clubman) passenger seat is optional.

As suggested pick a set of rules that are very close and make some tweeks around the edges. For example combine CAMS 2B/2F but separate by cc/forced/mods etc. The suggestion of a restrictor for forced is a change that can be easily reversed, this is 'smart'.

No need to reinvent the wheel.

[david_syd_au]

All of this discussion on classes presumes that those who have cars they aren't racing would be persuaded to return to events by such a class system. I'm not sure that is the case.

Maybe cost is a major factor? I had to skip MX-5 Cup round 2 this year, as I could not justify the cost of the 2 day event, which for me would have been about $900 for entry fees, garage fees, accommodation, fuel (for race & tow cars) and food.

The time based classes used for the MX-5 Club of NSW organised MX-5 Cup allow (nearly!) any MX-5 to compete. The rules are written on less than a single A4 page. So if people want to get their MX-5's on the track, there is minimal effort required as they can most probably run their car as is.

Is anyone deliberately holding back to run in a slower class and score more points, possibly, ... but as someone who has run at a few MX-5 Cup events I am certain that the majority are certainly not.

ChrisW, FWIW, I like the idea of running MX-5 Cup races at MX-5 Club of NSW club track days, and that was an option considered for the November track day at Winton, but which was dropped in that case due to the proximity to other race dates. I will have a look at the regulatory, cost and organisation requirements of hosting races at track days.

[MrsB]

LOL 150 on pointscore

[forcedfive]

122 on Point Score

[MattR]

Dann, I love points. Yes you are right. But turbos, lotuses, etc are self evident. It's the less obvious stuff that's a challenge to police.

High compression Pistons?
Stroked engines?
Big cams?
ECU mods

None of this stuff matters if the cars take points for power to weight, AND the power to weight is clearly displayed such that competitors can clearly see that they just got passed by a car with a lower or equal p/w.

Its really straight forward, you ecit the cirner behind another car which has a displayed power to weight lower than yours, your corner exit is the same and he hauls away down the straight, If you are both n/a 4 bangers its clear that there is something going on.

If this shows up as a problem for turbo because they are using their torque then thats fine, add some points for turbochargers.

Dann

What about different gearing??? This can be changed quite easily and for dramatic effect for both final drive and in the box, pretty cheap in race car world to get custom ratios made, or even off the shelf gear sets overnight from Japan.....

What ever you do, there will always be someone who will play the game better, whether it is at top level or grass roots level.

The big problem we have in Australia is the size of the market. In the States they have 10X the population at least, so there are better resources and more dollars to go round.

Way back in the early 2000's I was offered a job in the States and could have played in a semi professional sports car class/category with TV coverage and have it cost me basically nothing with the support you got, because the market is there to do that.

Here, my racing is limited as my sponsor, me, hasn't got the spare cash to support me in the way i want.