MX5CQ Trackday QR Monday 11/4/16

[Vat]

Another thought I have had in my head is to allocate a session where people can swap cars (untimed session).

There is other things to consider like will the car get abused etc, if it gets damaged etc but the risks can be managed. Would this encourage more people to attend, don't honestly know.

I would agree to swap cars with somebody with a turbo for a few laps maybe even a completely stock NA6.

That would be awesome! Guess it's up to owners who they'd trust with the car, which might be a little awkward for rejections, and if there's an incident involving damage. I imagine there'd be a queue for your thing, 'scary' steering ( ) aside!

[Trackphotos]

I'd be keen for that, not sure it couldn't just be done between drivers during timed sessions though.

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[The American]

I'm not a club member as I can't commit to a competition on week days at this point in my work and family life. Organising all of this would be hard work for not too much thanks - hats off to Adam!

Are there venues in Qld where alternative events to proper circuit driving can be held?

The WA Mx5 Club ( here he goes again ) and Mini Car club ran events using a bitumen carpark at a Kart track, a skid pan at a driver training facility, service roads at a drag strip, a car park at an indoor velodrome in addition to events at Barbagallo Raceway. Some events were run under lights at less 'premium' times.

The skid pan was not a wet pan that most people think of - only wet when raining. The non-Barbagallo events were less daunting and in additIon to competition were also run twice a year as "come n try" events for people to get an idea without the pressure of competition. At least one of these each year also had a 3 theory workshop the night before.
My understanding was that the cheaper venues contributed to subsidising the more expensive circuit hire events.

The club had its own timing gear, which meant that it could set up and run reliable timing at most venues.

What if the club competition looked something like this:

Interclub hill climb comp
Interclub motorkhana
Morgan Park Sprint
QLD Raceway Sprint x2
Willowbank drag way staging and strip area Autokhana
Lakeside Raceway Sprint x2
Lakeside DTC auto khana x2
Lakeside DTC come n try x?

Minimum number of events to qualify for series points
Entry fee for non QR non LS events subsidising track hire
Come n try events providing an avenue for uncertain but would be future regulars to get involved?

Lakeside is a lot of fun, but it's not the place for a beginner. Many cars get bent there - newbies should not have to worry about whether they will even have a car at the end of an event. Better off hitting a cone or two and having a scuff to buff out, and see them back at the next event (and paying an entry fee!)

There's two other venues I've head about that might be worth a look - Norwell park and the place the Sunshine Coast Motorsport Club uses for its Gymkhanas. I wonder if the MG car club rents out their place...

[The American]

Was not me, have not ever dríven in that area in the MX5...

Maybe next time you drive to Lakeside, leave the trailer at home and go the back way along the Brisbane Valley highway through Fernvale and upto Mt Glorious - the road up to Mt Glorious from that side is a treat.

[Magpie]

Been annoying the SPR boys on Facebook regarding attending track days and it would seem that cost/location is the main driver for not attending. However, mentoring would be seen as a positive.

Not sure if the MX5 car club could hold come and try days, where for a reduced cost you get mentoring but less laps. Could also offer incentives to mentors?

There is very little that can be done about costs and or locations but how do we get the younger drivers to attend? When you consider that they maybe apprentices, have young families, minimal disposable income and or expensive car modification addictions?

[MattR]

Other problem you have is who would be the driving mentors.....

What qualifies you to be a mentor??? Track experience, professional driver trainer or just a good bloke???

There are very few in the club I would want sitting beside me as a driving instructor/mentor, and then you have the issue of the venue accepting your mentors are at the standard they want to see plus venue and organiser's insurance to cover the risk to both mentor and mentored. Who pays if the worse happens and the mentor is off work for a period of time???

IIRC there was some talk about something similar for QR but was put on hold as the instructirs would have to be vetted to meet QR's standards plus the fact you taking money from others who provide this service at the venues.

Again, if that is expected to be voluntary, it can be a big ask for someone to take time off work for a day, especially for those self employed.

Having said all that, it is far easier to get on a track now and have a great time than it was when i started out near 30 years ago. Private practice required a full CAMS race licence, track days were club supersprints or other speed events where you needed appropriate 2S licence and was all CAMS run and the associated paperwork to go with it. it was a lot more difficult to get a full race licence as in 80% of cases you were automatically failed on your OLT and you had to do the full day again to get that precious signature to say you could put a P plate on and race door to door.

As for getting the next lot onto the track? The ones that are hungry enough and want to be the next Ricciardo are in karts by the time they are 6. The ones who want to have a punt will take the step with some gentle encouragement and get out there and have a go. Then there are the gunners, what ever you do to help them they will find a way or excuse not to come and play. Costs, locations, lack of disposable income are pretty poor excuses if you really want to have a go. I've been there done that, if you want to play you will find a way to play.

[ndragun]

For the record; I was never going to be attending this day purely due to a work commitment. I'm off to NZ on Sunday... I'm usually a maybe until the last minute, due to the nature of my work and my ever-changing schedule... AND I have 3 kids under 6... so if its not work, it seems to be god damn kids birthday parties.
Anyway;

I think the reasons for 'younger people' not attending are very genuine and very real - so its always going to be a bit of an ask. I'm not an old guy, but if I put myself back 10-15 years ago - in order of priority;

1. I would have been tracking the only car I owned - and while at the time I was completely enclosed in a cloud of invincibility and wouldn't have considered crashing a possibility (!!) - I would have been concerned about mechanical failures and the cost of fixing them alongside the cost/trouble of my only car being off the road for a period of time.
2. There was no WAY - as a young professional - I would have been able to regularly take time off from my work at the time to attend weekday track days. If I were a young tradie or apprentice (and I did work in a trade to pay for my studies at uni back in the day, so I know that world too!)... That problem is doubly so.
3. I just wouldn't have been able to afford it on a regular basis (And not by forward planning: I would have attended the odd day and then thought for the next month thereafter "hmmm I seem to have no money at the moment...")

I think it is always going to be a big challenge getting under-30s to be regular attendees - and I wouldn't waste a huge amount of brain power trying to change that.
Years ago when I was last a club member, I think the skid-pan days were more popular with the younger guys than the track days - and arguably the skid pan days require the more skill.
It was just that there was very little chance of having a proper prang or risking mechanical failure at a skidpan day.

Tend to agree with gslender... I'm not criticising anyone's approach, but in my view operating these events at a slight loss or at break even all the time is just not long-term sustainable - as the club seems to be realising. If club members want to enjoy a regular track day schedule, then they simply have to pay for it. The club should be aiming to make a modest profit out of these events to cover the instances where attendance may be low. Otherwise its constantly going to be an uphill battle.
Run some skid pan days at a slight profit to generate a bit of savings to subsidise the track days - and entice younger guys that way? I dunno...

If its always going to be a case of having to stump up the entry fee only to be refunded it later when the event inevitably gets cancelled due to lack of interest... that's going to get old pretty quickly. No point me nominating the figure, but I'd happily pay significantly more than what appears to be the 'going rate' for a track day in these parts, if it meant a more solid schedule.

Again; no criticisms... You can't please everyone. Just offering an opinion.

[Magpie]

MattR - maybe the use of a spotter in the passenger seat would be better than mentor. I doubt this forum is the place to discuss the fundamental differences between mentoring and coaching. So people make great mentors but crap coaches and vice versa, further a mentor cannot be a coach to the same person.

ndragun good points. An increase cost to ensure all planned events go ahead is better than a suck and see approach.

However if we seriously want change then we should be active in the club, again I'm guilty of not being active.

[ndragun]

However if we seriously want change then we should be active in the club, again I'm guilty of not being active.

What do you mean by 'active'?

Sidenote; if my avatar is to be believed, apparently I now own an "ND - 2 GT". Nice.

[Magpie]

Active can mean/imply a lot of things, like attend meetings, press the flesh, campaign, be social, be seen in the right group, have your own agenda, machiavellianism.

Not a shot at the MX5 club Been in small clubs before (in senior positions), where 95% of the work is done by 5% of the club members where the members want change but when you make the changes you have a rebellion on your hands so you throw your hands up and walk away from a sport you gave over 30 years of your life to. Then you think that it was your fault so you take a role on only to be butchered again... now have absolutely no involvement and refuse to even discuss the sport. So you get involved in another sport and stay out of the politics.

Oooops maybe a personal rant. So my opinion of active is to be Machiavellian.

[MattR]

MattR - maybe the use of a spotter in the passenger seat would be better than mentor. I doubt this forum is the place to discuss the fundamental differences between mentoring and coaching. So people make great mentors but crap coaches and vice versa, further a mentor cannot be a coach to the same person.

Even calling the second person a spotter in the passenger seat brings up that nasty can of worms about insurance and risk, and again depending on the track what is their role, pointing out lines, where to brake, where to put the car? That also opens up a big can of worms as to who has the appropriate knowledge to do that within or outside the club.

The role needs to be very carefully defined. If the mentor is someone to hold their hand through the process of getting onto the track, then I have no problem putting my hand up for that when available, including helping with car preparation and so on to make sure the car is capable of safely undertaking the day. Some advice on tyres and pressures, and have someone follow me on track is fine to give them some basic idea of lines.

Adam, and the club has tried this approach in the past with varying degrees of success.

I think it comes down to a cyclical thing as people get interested, lose interest, are available or not depending on personal circumstances, and also what they want to achieve out of the day, is it to be a track day warrior, try something different, go fast with no fear of losing a licence, or a shake down for a new competition car.

We have had a few years of very good track day attendance. Five or six years ago the club was struggling a little with numbers at track days. The club has to have the interests of its members first, and the keen track day participants are only a small proportion of the overall membership of the club. If the track days atrt to cost the club money to the detriment of the club and its whole membership base then a decision will have to be made as to what happens next with track days.

[The American]

Are the Club days part of a competition?

[Trackphotos]

There is a club motorsport championship, yes. It's not super competitive though, everybody wants to be able to drive home at the end of the day.

[RileyR]

Is the MX5 club QLD organizing a sprint at QR on the 18th of April?
The QR site says so.

[Trackphotos]

The 18th was the original date, before QR gave that date to Porsche Australia. It's not on the calendar anymore, but the second option we had for rescheduling, Wednesday the 20th, is still listed. Guess it was missed when they deleted the 11th and 18th entries.

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