How do I go quicker on the track?

[Ned Loh]

Do the games offer the tracks you will be racing on? Not saying it won't help if they don't but would help more if they did.

My 2 cents, it's just sprinting. Whilst the aim is to go as fast as YOU can...Turn up and as long as you are having fun...job done.

[beavis]

There are some better wheel and pedal setups than the Logitech G25/G27 and now G29, but the prices tend to get pretty steep and some of them are only PC compatible. These Logitech wheels seem to be the best bang for buck.

Of course you could go something like a Fanatec wheel, but for Dave, a used G25/G27 is perfect.

Do the games offer the tracks you will be racing on? Not saying it won't help if they don't but would help more if they did.

Almost nothing on PS3 will have any aussie tracks other than maybe Bathurst.
On PC, you can get almost any track if you know what you're doing.

[Dan]

iRacing has Phillip Island on it (laser scanned track) as well as a realistic MX5 model (NC MX5 Cup and Standard NC).

While he doesn't have an NC the drive of the car will be much closer to a real MX5 anything on a console and the game in general is more realistic since iRacing is more of a simulator rather than a game (I play a lot of racing games and when I started playing iRacing it was frustratingly realistic).

The only potential problem is that it needs an ok PC to play, I can play it with good frame rates on a 2013 Macbook Pro though so it doesn't need anything really high end.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

[pepejesus]

Agree with Dan - if you want a driver training tool rather than a 'game' then stay away from consoles.

PC is the only option for a simulator.

Nowadays the software is so good (specifically iRacing) that the hardware is the biggest hurdle to tranlsating to real world results.

A low end set up can be really good but in terms of real life translation your mileage might vary. I have a low end set up (Logitech G25 wheel, Fanatec Clubsport V3 pedals, 27" monitor, low end PC) and it's a lot of fun and I do find it translates to real life driving, especially learning tracks and lines etc.

A high end set up (OSW wheel, high end hydraulic/load cell pedals, VR headset or triple monitors, high end PC) will be as good if not better than what a lot of professional race teams use. This would have a significant level of real world translation but it will also cost a lot of money.

[bruce]

If you need to ask that question you may as well give up.
Eat more chips and watch it on the telly.

[oztrackdays]

I have fiddled with lots of loggers,
if you are serious about knowing why you are slower you need a minimum of these things.

- GPS Speed Channel 10 Hz or Better
- RPM Signal Channel
- TPS Channel

90% of the sins show up there.

What I found when comparing my laps to more experienced racers, I was often 5-10+ kph
faster than they were on corner entry but that would cost me more in lap time as I would
need to over-slow the car to stay on track. A large part of the experience of the faster drivers
is correctly judging which parts of the circuit to attack rather than having superior physical driving skills.

A - acceleration
B - braking
C - cornering

In the simplest of terms, all circuit cars should be able to corner and brake better
than they can accelerate so the job is to make sure you spend the least time trying
to make your car try to accelerate.

extra channels for scrutiny with diminishing returns for an amateur goal.

- Brake pressure
- Steering Angle
- Front/Rear Wheel speed sensors
and a dozen more help fill in the rest.

[kalt]

so the job is to make sure you spend the least time trying
to make your car try to accelerate.

I find that ironic coming from a guy who K24 swapped his five

[oztrackdays]

so the job is to make sure you spend the least time trying
to make your car try to accelerate.

I find that ironic coming from a guy who K24 swapped his five

it's a good point going from 130 rwkw to 200 rwkw naturally aspirated barely gets you
one second for free on a short lap.

[madjak]

here is a quick blurb of what my time on the track is like. When I'm pushing to go quicker I'm getting to the point where I'm having an internal battle between my common sense and my competitive side at every corner on the track.

6 Months ago at Barbagallo - 2nd session.

At this time in the event, I need to drop 0.2 seconds off my PB to beat a Lotus... I'm driving the car right up to the limit and stepping over it often enough to know where that line is. All I need is to nail it for that one fast lap! Braking points keep getting later and later, well past the point where my brain is screaming to step on the brakes, but I know I have to hold off that extra 5 - 10 meters to drop 0.1sec at this point in the track. The tyres are chirping under brakes with the back of the car squirming a little as I try to drop as much speed as possible in what looks like far too little distance to wash of the speed... and then still have the courage to get off the brakes earlier than makes sense so that I'm carrying more speed through the corner. I know I've gone too far when I'm in the dirt or having to lift the throttle after mid corner just to make it.

On the esses I know I can't lift the throttle even though every part of me is telling me I have to. I have to ignore the voice of common sense screaming in my head and just keep it nailed. The car drifts wide over the crest and the back gets a bit loose, I'm carrying far more speed than usual and I've drifted in on my normal braking line but somehow I still manage to brake and turn the car into the left hander. That was close, a smidgen more and I would have been in trouble... a combination of luck and skill kept me on the track. I make a mental note for future laps that I need to make sure the car is straight when I hit the brakes or I'll be off the track.

I know it was a quick lap even before I see the time because my hand is shaking a little from the adrenaline. My time shows I dropped that 0.2 of a second I needed... only to see that the Lotus I'm chasing dropped 0.2 seconds as well... so it's back out there next session to do it all again and somehow find that extra 0.2 seconds that 30 minutes ago I thought would be impossible. Maybe tyre pressures? even more commitment into turn 6? Faster shifts?... probably a combination of all 3. The new ground I broke in that last fast lap I now need to do every time plus more, and each time I successfully do it, that level of fear drops a little bit further, so that now I can achieve that same maneuver without thinking about it. Instead I'm thinking about things further up the road like braking later and optimising my turn in.

It's that evolution of trialing new things, pushing past your safety limits, getting used to the risk and making it part of every lap that makes you a quicker driver. If you're not comfortable risking the car and yourself for that next 0.1 second you'll never get there.

[davekmoore]

If you need to ask that question you may as well give up. Eat more chips and watch it on the telly.

I created my original post because I don't want to give up. I'm even doing exercise to lose weight and get fitter! No, really. For instance, 5.4km in 30 mins tonight on the indoor rower. And frankly, watching stuff on the telly just bores me. And yes, I'm happy to (just) have fun. Happier still if going faster.

It's great that plenty of people have suggested the improvements should come from me and not from the car. Note that I've commented accepting this a couple of times and I'll certainly be focusing (almost) entirely on the driver aspect.

It would still be interesting to hear opinions on my original questions, which are below, and now modified based on some of the answers very kindly and very quickly provided again by everyone here:

So how much are the following worth on a track which is 105-120 seconds in an MX-5?

A. Heaps of practice on a simulator (on general tracks, probs not Vic ones).
B. Some track days where all I do is get tuition.
C. Reduce driver weight by 20kg and increase fitness by 20%.
D. Being prepared to have "offs" in search of the other 5?%. [More bravery plus a towcar and trailer might need to be involved in this]
E. Find 100kg (?) to pull out. The rest of the a/c, power steering, sound proofing (and what else?).
E. R spec tyres to replace the worn high spec road tyres.
F. Front splitter/air dam and rear wing.
G. Better coilovers with stiffer track spec springs, better bushings, bigger swaybars, alignment, corner weighting, seam welding.
H. Change diff ratio to one where 6th actually gets used and all the ratios are effectively closer together.

My new guesses are:
A 2 seconds
B 2
C 1
D 1
E 1
F 1
G 1
H 1

Your thoughts?

[Magpie]

What about a full aero package designed by AMB?

Seriously stop looking for seconds per mod. What is your budget? $2,000 for suspension could give heaps of track time.

Have you considered giving your car to a professional driver and getting them to set a benchmark for you to aim at? There is no point modding your car if you cannot get close to their time.

I made the mistake of modding first learning to drive last however I never reduced improvement to a per mod. I still have to improve as a driver as cars with less mods are faster so what is that saying?

QR National GP 1:25, 1:00 for the sprint and 1:03 for the clubman, EC WTAC 1:50 are my aims for 2016.

Personally I would work on driver training and car setup. Get your tyre pressures and alignment right. From this you can tweak sway bars, springs etc. however until you get consistent this information is a guide only. You need to be able to describe what the car is doing, recognise when the tyres are too hot or under/over pressure, where is it understeering/oversteering. All this can be done without datalogging just a notebook, pressure gauge and pyrometer.

Make a plan with realistic/achievable goals and work towards that. You can eat an elephant in small bites.

[lightyear]

Magpie makes some good points. Let Brendan or myself set a time in your car. Then you will know how much is in just the driver. It may be the car does need some mods/changes for whatever reason. There may be a handling issue. It still baffles me you don't get into 6th. I have pretty much the same ratios as you. And I am at 7000rpm in 6th.
Remember I have done a 1:50.1 with a completely standard 1.8 non turbo motor (~90rwkw's). That car had original bushes, no seam welding, cheap 2nd hand coilovers ($600), etc. It did have a larger front swaybar, corner weighting, wheel alignment, Nitto NT01's and a half arsed attempt at aero ( rear wing dropped to a low angle, and front airdam with no splitter).
And a broken gearbox to make it more challenging. So you can see, you shouldnt need to be looking at performance mods. Unless like I said, your car does have an issue.
What does it weigh? Where did you weigh it?. My cars are normally all around 1000kg's. My "SE" was 997kg's with nearly half a tank and no aero add ons.

[Magpie]

I would hand over the keys to Lightyear!

[YanMa YatTai]

I will give you an account of a fellow newbie.

Trying harder/with more brave pills just doesn't work. You will just risk spinning and hitting something. Ask me how I know.

When you say you have road tyres - which specific Hankooks do you have?
I had performance Nitto road tyres on my car when I bought it. I now have Yokie AD08R. Difference? Night and day.

It was an exercise in futility trying to keep up with others when I was on those tyres. I only know that now. When the experienced guys tell you braking points and corner speeds - that is relevant for the R spec tyres they are probably using. Road tyres are much, much worse! You could not possibly reach their speeds on road tyres. At Wakefield for example I asked about turns 7 and 9. They all said you can take them flat out! I can now on the AD08Rs. No chance on the Nittos. Same goes with braking points.

Thinking through your laps and methodically working out where you can gain speed works, how ever you do it. My previous reference points were on road tyres and had only lost about 1 sec on my lap times with the new tyres. I then thought through the lap and where I could be faster - another full second lost with the exact same set up! With every mod you will need to re-reference your markers on the track to fully utilise the mod - so going nuts with mods all at once is pointless. I dont believe I am fully utilising the S spec tyres and new diff I have. Now to get out there again and cut down those times!

[rascal]

It would still be interesting to hear opinions on my original questions, which are below, and now modified based on some of the answers very kindly and very quickly provided again by everyone here:

So how much are the following worth on a track which is 105-120 seconds in an MX-5?

A. Heaps of practice on a simulator (on general tracks, probs not Vic ones).
B. Some track days where all I do is get tuition.
C. Reduce driver weight by 20kg and increase fitness by 20%.
D. Being prepared to have "offs" in search of the other 5?%. [More bravery plus a towcar and trailer might need to be involved in this]
E. Find 100kg (?) to pull out. The rest of the a/c, power steering, sound proofing (and what else?).
E. R spec tyres to replace the worn high spec road tyres.
F. Front splitter/air dam and rear wing.
G. Better coilovers with stiffer track spec springs, better bushings, bigger swaybars, alignment, corner weighting, seam welding.
H. Change diff ratio to one where 6th actually gets used and all the ratios are effectively closer together.

My new guesses are:
A 2 seconds
B 2
C 1
D 1
E 1
F 1
G 1
H 1

Your thoughts?

A) 1.0secs
B) 5.0secs
C) 0.2secs
D) Unnecessary. You only need that level of commitment when you are down to finding the last 0.1 secs. (and probably at that point looking at sub 1:50s..)
E) 1.0secs, though living with a noisy, hot, less waterproof, much less enjoyable drive for the sake of lap times (unless 100% dedicated track car)
E2) 2.0 secs and have another dedicated set of track rims
F) 1.5 - 2.0 secs, though you still need to learn to drive it harder to match the extra grip, otherwise 1.5sec slower due to extra drag
G) 1.0 - 4.0secs depending on how much you spend/how far you go/ and what condition the current setup is in
H) probably unnecessary once the above is sorted..