How do I go quicker on the track?

[pepejesus]

I can't see how the physics works... unless there is more drag / friction from the curb acting on the wheels. If anything I would expect it to unsettle the car and push it out wider. I tend to avoid the curbs on the apexes for this reason.

I think it's due to the shape of the curb, if it falls away towards the inside then you effectively get some helpful camber that you can hook your wheel onto. In the extreme it creates kind of a train track that you can hook your wheel inside of.

Think of WRC cars using the soft ground at the immediate edge of the track on the inside of the corner, their inside wheel falls below track level and the inside wheel can push back against the edge of the track. Obviously no curbs involved but I think the principle is the same.

Again I have no idea whether this is what Tander is referring to, just pointing out that some inside curbs can be used like this.

[davekmoore]

If it is a psychological improvement you're after, then yes update your Final Will, make sure your life insurance cover is up to date and you have hospital and ambulance cover on your health insurance, tow your racecar to the track and drive it like you stole it from a Yakuza Boss (because Japan).

All done, except it's my road car and it will be dríven to the track. Let's face it, if I need to invoke the Final WIll, life insurance, hospital and ambulance cover and/or health insurance, I won't be too bothered about needing a trailer to get it home.

[stuart1]

In that video Tander mentions that riding up the curb on the apex of a corner will help turn the car? Is it loading the outer wheel slightly more or something to do with steering geometry? On the tracks here we don't typically have curbs on the inside of the corners so I can't imagine how it would help. In fact I think in my car it would probably unsettle it more than help. I still cut the corners as much as possible and skip across curbs on corner entrances / exits but I'm doing it more to position the car to reduce curvature of the corner.

I think what GT is saying is their race cars are set up for the fast corners at PI and reading between the lines they may be reluctant to change direction on those two slow corners mentioned and as such they may be using the inside kerb to help rotate a car that may be sitting flat and pushing the front.

Don't know whether the technique is to ride the front up the kerb and transfer more weight to the load front to give more front grip or to unsettle the rear and cause the car to rotate that way.

Also consider the type of diff these cars use which could be prone to push the front on some corners and thus maybe the reason they are always on the kerbs on street circuits.

[beavis]

Brendan's top tips for learning to drive good and do other track car things good too.
My #1 Rule is to copy what the fast people do. (i.e practice on a race simulator like an F1 driver) My #2 rule is copy what the fast cars have. (look at cars from people like emilio @ 949 racing, or suzuki unders S15, for inspiration)

My suggestion for you is to work on rule 1 first:
Step 1 -Aquire used PS3:


Step 2 - purchase Gran Turismo (5 or 6):


Step 3 - Purchase G27 wheel:



Step 4-5000 - invest the time to play over and over and over:
Do the licence tests, make sure you get GOLD, if you don't, try again.
Pick one car, one track, and continually try to improve your time.... drive it until your hands hurt.
It costs nothing to play, its free training, you can try different lines to understand corners, speeds, oversteer.

Total budget, maybe $500 if you buy used bits.

[Blesif]

The two things that made me a consistent winner in competitive sailing were learning form the experts (who were the current winners) and reading the book "The Winning Mind" by John Whitmore. John Whitmore was firstly a competitive motor racer and afterwards became a competitive sailor.
He claims motor racing and sailing are at the top of the list of sports demanding a developed intellect. I totally believe that getting professional advice and training from someone who is a winner will give the greatest benefit to all of us who aspire to faster lap times. I am also convinced by the positive and negative effects the mind can have on performance. Its a small book, easy reading and completely convincing. It is aimed at all sports but sailing and motor racing in particular. I just lifted it off the shelf and had a quick refresher read and it is as good as ever in its advice. That book took me from an occasional winner in sailing to two state and one national championships. As I have come very late to the race track and an MX5 (68 when I started, I'm now 72) I have focussed more on having fun that going all out to achieve the ultimate. Fair enough but I still have ambition to improve my lap times rather than fiddle with my car. There is no better feeling than just "nailing it". I agree with all of those above who advise working on "you" not the car.

[greenMachine]

Dave, words are cheap. You say you want to go faster? Fine, just go faster ... .

Are you locking up in the braking zone (or ABS pulsing)? Are you spinning out in the corners? If you are on the throttle or the brakes, are you on 100% ALL the time? No? You are not trying hard enough. If you are not doing those sort of things, you are not pushing the limits. Going fast is about finding the limits, usually by going over them, and then consistently driving at, or just below, those limits.

But you need to want to do it - you need to NEED to do it. You need the competitive drive to make you push those limits, to take those risks. You need to be able to handle a written off car, or a damaged one, if that is what it takes. To illustrate this (and I am no ace), on my first lap on a circuit, and with the instructor sitting beside me after a couple of laps in the driver's seat, I spun the car on the third corner. I was pushing. I was also being a bit stupid/overconfident too, but I was prepared to push myself, the car, and to take risks. (You Mexicans have a problem there, because your circuits can bite pretty hard - we have Wakefield, which is great because it has a lot of run-off space, and pushing/finding limits is relatively risk-free.)

You don't need all the things mentioned up thread. You can do it, all by yourself. The Tander vid is an excellent tutorial on lines generally and PI in particular, and data can help, driver training (with a good trainer) will speed up the process. Seat time is essential to get to know the car and its characteristics. But none of that can change your mindset.

You may not be that competitive animal. You may not have the last 5% of the necessary skills. You may not want to risk a DD because you NEED that car tomorrow. That is cool, what is important is to know yourself, know your constraints, know what you want, and then drive accordingly. If that means you are not getting 100% out of the car, your lap times are not where you would like, so be it.

But most important thing is to have fun, and be smiling when the day is done. Everything else is secondary.

[Apu]

greenMachine makes a good point about "written off car".

I was sitting on 1:14 at Wakefield for over a year - part of that was constantly swapping between the MX5 and Integra, and partly due to the fact that I didn't want to damage the cars.

Once I decided to commit the Integra to being a track only car, and accepting the fact that I could potentially write it off (plus it helped that I trailered it to the track), my times started to drop. Yes, I did lighten it which helped initially but I've been finding the limits more.

With that mindset change (and lightening the car), my PB is now on 1:12.02 and I know can can dip into the 11s. The car, with a better driver on board has done 1:10...so that's my target.

[rascal]

I think greenMachine makes a better point with

But most important thing is to have fun, and be smiling when the day is done. Everything else is secondary.

This is just club sprints after all....

[Apu]

Definitely! I do have a lot more fun now that I worry less about the car (until something breaks).

I've been on a couple of track days with JDMYard and have had very tight runs with Yonas - they were tremendous fun as we run similar times and are cars have strengths in different areas. So much fun that we've had a few other guys keen to chase us as well...which is when it starts to get hairy...

[davekmoore]

greenMachine makes very good points. I don't have a compulsive need to go faster. I'd just like to. The car remains a daily driver and yes, this affects how near to the limit I'm prepared to go. I probs won't intentionally consistently go into the last 5%, although I've often unintentionally gone there. If going 5% harder improves times by 5% I'd be tempted though. I'll certainly continue to have fun, although my competitive instinct sees more fun in better results.

Brendan [beavis'] suggestion looks like a winner to me. Will investigate. Anyone here got PS3 kit to sell?

[rascal]

Brendan [beavis'] suggestion looks like a winner to me. Will investigate. Anyone here got PS3 kit to sell?

Try fleabay.

a 1 min searched found
PS3 itself for <$100 http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Playstation- ... SwLnlWpsVy
(Even EBGames sells refurbished ones for $138 with 12mths warranty....)

logitec feedback wheel for <$100.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Logitec-Driv ... SwHaBWlv32

The games itself can be had for <$20, heaps of listings..

so $220 and you're all set for many many late nights/early mornings.. all in the name of driver training...

[lightyear]

I payed closer to $2,000 several years ago when all this came out. Steering wheel is still in the box, never opened. Make sure you have the time to use it. I want to set something up in the theatre room, one day.

[beavis]

logitec feedback wheel for <$100.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Logitec-Driv ... SwHaBWlv32

Dave, dont get anything but a Logitech G25 or G27, they cost more, but are worth it.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Logitech-G25 ... Sw5dNWnj78
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Logitech-G25 ... Sw--1WrIhf

[CrazyRacer]

Dave, dont get anything but a Logitech G25 or G27, they cost more, but are worth it.

There are some better wheel and pedal setups than the Logitech G25/G27 and now G29, but the prices tend to get pretty steep and some of them are only PC compatible. These Logitech wheels seem to be the best bang for buck.

Of course once you've got the playstation, wheel and pedals you'll need a sim stand to bolt it all too. I've got the Trak Racer RS8 which I find pretty good, but I don't get to use it nearly as much as I'd like. No that doesn't mean I want to sell it.

http://www.digoptions.com.au/trak-racer-rs8-mach-4-stainless-steel-premium-gami

[rascal]

Of course once you've got the playstation, wheel and pedals you'll need a sim stand to bolt it all too. I've got the Trak Racer RS8 which I find pretty good, but I don't get to use it nearly as much as I'd like. No that doesn't mean I want to sell it.

http://www.digoptions.com.au/trak-racer-rs8-mach-4-stainless-steel-premium-gami

The above sim stand is awesome but the downside (besides the cost) is the space it takes up, for something that most of us rarely get to use.
Seeing as I had neither the money nor the room, I made my own stand out of 2x1 pine which folds up out of the way and can be stored in a cupboard. Cost me about $20 in materials and a much better WAF..