Operation TLC

gslender · Postby **gslender** » Tue Nov 03, 2015 3:36 pm

ndragun wrote:So just shows the difference between starting up with no throttle and starting up with a tiny tickle of throttle that the IAC valve should do for me.

That just means the Idle Cranking Duty / Steps is too low - if not, then the idle valve isn't allowing enough air in... ie the max idle valve is too low.

ndragun · Postby **ndragun** » Tue Nov 03, 2015 4:14 pm

gslender wrote:
ndragun wrote:So just shows the difference between starting up with no throttle and starting up with a tiny tickle of throttle that the IAC valve should do for me.

That just means the Idle Cranking Duty / Steps is too low - if not, then the idle valve isn't allowing enough air in... ie the max idle valve is too low.

Idle valve isn't letting ANY air in at the moment... remembering my MS2 is currently not controlling it. At the moment, the plumbing is blocked off and the valve is unplugged..

gslender · Postby **gslender** » Tue Nov 03, 2015 7:06 pm

ndragun wrote:Idle valve isn't letting ANY air in at the moment... remembering my MS2 is currently not controlling it. At the moment, the plumbing is blocked off and the valve is unplugged..

Ahh, well that'll be it.... Why is that? Did you have problems with the ms2? I think the later firmware had better PWM control for idle valve such that it should be pretty much perfect for NA / NB valves....!!

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Ice88 · Postby **Ice88** » Wed Nov 04, 2015 9:44 am

Just had a thought about this actually, what about using an old auto choke? Would aid in start ups at the very least

ndragun · Postby **ndragun** » Thu Dec 31, 2015 12:50 am

Long time no post... Not much car time of late - but when I have had car time - progress has been gooooooood.

With thanks to gslender for urging me on, the idle valve issues over the last few pages of this build thread have been SORTED- with nothing more than a firmware update for the ECU. So we now have a working idle valve - hurrah. Evidently this ECU shipped with some wacky firmware that either disabled or otherwise failed to support an idle valve.

With that though, has exposed problems with the plumbing into the throttle bodies. In short, the vacuum/idle air plumbing that I'd envisaged here is flawed. What is now happening, is when the A/C turns on at idle, the idle valve opens as it should (to around 60-80%) to add air-flow, but then subtracts from any meaningful vacuum reading, since the airflow coming from the idle valve exceeds that of the throttle bodies, and the subsequent airflow in the vacuum block starts to reverse. This then causes;

The fuel delivery to go way way rich, since running in ITB mode in the MS then puts me at the top of the fuel table rather than the bottom around the correct idle range, since the ECU is seeing the wrong MAP reading

I lose vacuum for brake boosting, so with the A/C on I might occasionally (and some would say unpredictably) arrive at a set of lights or intersection with a rock-hard pedal from time to time... (totally not dangerous at all)
SO - that has led to the development of a little air distribution block that looks something like a weird musical instrument - a car-flute if you will;

The basic idea here is that it will feed additional air to the runners when need be without changing the direction of airflow in the vacuum block - which is where the MAP reading is taken from.
The idle valve mounts on the block, covering the two big holes in the middle and metering air when necessary.
The diagram tells the story better than words - the air distribution block is at the bottom of the sketch;

Funnily enough - this time last year we were on the way to the maternity ward for the delivery of my daughter. Tomorrow is her first birthday... and then when the relies clear off and its time for naps, I might bolt the car flute in place and see what happens...

gslender · Postby **gslender** » Thu Dec 31, 2015 7:33 am

I'm sure it will start to work as expected now! So close....

ndragun · Postby **ndragun** » Mon Jan 04, 2016 3:53 pm

Well - the air distribution block works an absolute treat. No appreciable vacuum loss between fully open and fully closed which means my fuel and timing tables stay put in ITB mode. So we're well on the way! Car idles perfectly now with A/C off and on. Needs a bit more tweaking in TunerStudio though as occasionally I'll come to a stop with A/C on and it will dip to stall while it all tries to sort itself out into closed-loop idle.

Having a bit of a hard time killing relays in the fuse box at the moment though which is a bit odd... Separate posts about that...

ndragun · Postby **ndragun** » Tue Jan 26, 2016 3:03 pm

Another addition to the car flute...

Now that I've sorted out the vacuum and idle control system, something I've been meaning to do is sort out crank case ventilation plumbing. The vent-to-atmosphere catch can stinks, and noxious blow-by gasses inevitably end up in the cabin.

I'd been toying with the idea of plumbing this down into the exhaust header, but I don't like the difficulties involved in doing that.

So the next best thing is to plumb it back into the intake. In some circles this is a bit of a heresy, since it has the potential to funk up the intake with oily residue, but in principle if the catch can is working the way it should, then the gasses should be relatively clean. So this is what I've done... Will monitor it from time to time anyway and see how funky it gets.

The catch can itself is a little bit ghetto, but it does the job its meant to do;

The cams-approved catch can is a bit ugly if I'm honest, and the fittings are a bit average. May replace it with a higher quality unit one day...

Around the back of the engine, and in under the fuel line to the distribution block. When the IAC valve is closed, the gasses will be routed back into the filter area and should be sucked straight into the intake, then with IAC valve closed, gasses go into the intake the other way.

The verdict is that it simply works. The stink is gone. Normally after a drive, the car reeks of fumes from under the bonnet. Now - there is genuinely nothing.

Sa-weet!

ndragun · Postby **ndragun** » Tue Feb 09, 2016 9:09 pm

First track visit since the rebuild. Really happy with it to be honest - no problems to speak of which is all I'm really concerned about right now.

There's plenty to worry about with handling... tyres... and driver ability... but at least I've got a bit of confidence that mechanically and electrically its running right.

The GoPro can't handle the heat recording this res evidently so - aside from a few lengthy videos of me sitting in the heat waiting to be flagged out - this is the only vaguely interesting bit of footage I managed to capture. The last couple of laps of the first session.

gslender · Postby **gslender** » Tue Feb 09, 2016 9:23 pm

ndragun wrote:There's plenty to worry about with handling... tyres... and driver ability... but at least I've got a bit of confidence that mechanically and electrically its running right.

You look really composed on the track and the car sounds great!

I see what you mean about the front understeering though.... :shock:

ndragun · Postby **ndragun** » Tue Feb 09, 2016 10:42 pm

gslender wrote:
ndragun wrote:There's plenty to worry about with handling... tyres... and driver ability... but at least I've got a bit of confidence that mechanically and electrically its running right.

You look really composed on the track and the car sounds great!

I see what you mean about the front understeering though....

Yea... then once it got hotter it just started feeling squirmy and skittish at the two do-or-die points of the track, which knocked my confidence and I was happy to call it a day.

Having said all that - the understeer out of Karousel in those few laps might not have been so much of a problem had I sorted a better entry to it in the first place.

Will have to start putting some effort in to knowing what I have under me with end links, damping and alignment before Morgan Park... at the moment the alignment is done (badly) with string and a steel ruler, and the dampers are still set the way they came out of the box. So no point tinkering at the track if I don't know where I'm starting from - I'll probably only make things worse.

All in all - super happy at the moment with it though...

Magpie · Postby **Magpie** » Wed Feb 10, 2016 7:33 am

Good news. Are you going to be at Morgan Park in March?

At the track you could wind the dampers up at the front to decrease under steer.

Sounds like a good plan to understand what you have suspension wise before tinkering. If you want to experiment with sway bars I have a set of Whiteline F/R adjustable I could lend. Plus I have different spring rates as well. Saves the expense of buying.

ndragun · Postby **ndragun** » Wed Feb 10, 2016 8:26 am

Magpie wrote:Good news. Are you going to be at Morgan Park in March?

I sure am. Of the three track choices locally - Morgan Park is the easy favourite, so I wouldn't miss it now that the car is more or less ready to play!

I'm using a racing beat front and mazdaspeed rear with adjustable end links. I think I'll just have to K.I.S.S. it until I want more adjustability later. Again, no point going crazy if I don't fully understand what I have first. And to be honest, with the RE002s I'm never going to be leading the timesheets!!

Stupid - I had all these pre-conceived notions that I'd be perfectly happy with good road rubber, I'm never going to be too serious chasing times blah blah blah... I think it took maybe 3 laps before I started thinking about ordering a second set of rims and some semi-slicks... :lol:

Magpie · Postby **Magpie** » Wed Feb 10, 2016 10:30 am

And it begins

ndragun · Postby **ndragun** » Mon Mar 21, 2016 9:55 pm

Obligatory post-track-day vid upload. This is the first timed lap, last session of the day. Not quite my 'quickest' (which was in the same session, but the gopro stopped again midway through) but close enough... Nothing all that fancy - just trying to get after a couple of 944 Porsches.

In terms of mechanical gremlins... my thoughts are that the catch can solution might not be relieving blow-by pressure enough at high RPMs... I had the CAS failure in the first session and it ejected itself with a bit of force. And then during this last session, a blanking plug I used for one of the breather ports in the rocker cover blew out. At the very least - may need to just chuck the breather filter back on the top of the catch can for track days... but will have a bit of a think about it.

And then there's the handling. These tyres are getting knackered now after a pretty big lockup in one of the sessions. And I've really got to get a decent alignment done before starting to worry too much about laptimes. The car is pretty much just understeering everywhere right now. Turn 6 was the worst... And I'd like to get through 7 at a higher speed in 3rd gear, since I'm not in the power down to the last twisty bits of layout E. You can lean up on that curb exiting 7... but without confidence earlier through the turn I don't want to push it too much.

Considering I basically started the day standing up at a marshalling point after the first 3 laps wishing I'd stayed home and watched the F1... it ended up a pretty OK day.