Daytime running lights...

manga_blue · Postby **manga_blue** » Mon Nov 16, 2015 5:26 pm

I'm using high power LEDS with bayonet mounts as straight replacements into the parking light sockets. They seem bright enough. I went that route because the RMS regs at the time said that DRLs had to be a minimum distance from the car's centreline. The radiaitor mouth is far too narrow for that.

Mr Morlock · Postby **Mr Morlock** » Mon Nov 16, 2015 7:06 pm

There is a dimension for drls and if the drls are mounted as far from centre line as possible they are close to spec. I did measure before fitment. I figure no one will measure it and they look right.

manga_blue · Postby **manga_blue** » Mon Nov 16, 2015 10:15 pm

Looks like there's been an update to the regs which make it wasier for us. It now says:

AUSTRALIAN VEHICLE STANDARDS RULES - REG 85

Daytime running lights
(1) A pair of daytime running lights may be fitted to a motor vehicle.

(2) A pair of daytime running lights fitted to a vehicle with 4 or more wheels must be fitted with the centre of each light:

(a) at least 600 millimetres from the centre of the other light; and

(b) not over 510 millimetres from the nearer side of the vehicle.

(3) However, a pair of daytime running lights fitted to a motor vehicle under 1300 millimetres wide may be fitted with the centre of each light not under 400 millimetres from the centre of the other light.

(4) When on, a daytime running light must:

(a) show a white or yellow light visible from the front of the vehicle; and

(b) not use over 25 watts power.

Note The third edition ADRs only allow white daytime running lights.

(5) Daytime running lights must be wired so they are off when a headlight, except a headlight being used as a flashing signal, is on.

(6) For subrule (3), the width of a vehicle is measured disregarding any anti-skid device mounted on wheels, central tyre inflation systems, lights, mirrors, reflectors, signalling devices and tyre pressure gauges.

Nevyn72 · Postby **Nevyn72** » Tue Nov 17, 2015 1:29 pm

I went with an aftermarket 'kit' solution, fits inside the front grille opening (so only visible from the front as required), and works well.

Had a few near misses with cars pulling out in front of me (dark grey car on a dark grey road isn't the most visible thing in the world), since installing these I've actually noticed some cars starting to move before jumping on the brakes! :wink:

Looks like this....

Silvia · Postby **Silvia** » Tue Nov 17, 2015 2:05 pm

Mine's also Silver (Silvia) and IMO those will not stop 4WD's and trucks moving in from the sides from not seeing you - and this is my greatest complaint. Their mirrors are very high.
A couple of high power LED's dropped into the parkers as well, as I did yesterday, will give much better protection from this at low cost and effort. You can see from the pic they would be much more visible to the sides.....

hks_kansei · Postby **hks_kansei** » Tue Nov 17, 2015 2:59 pm

Short of putting lights down the sides there's very little you can do regarding people changing lanes into you.

90% of the time the problem is that they aren't looking, and frankly, no DRL or headlight, or anything visual will help if the other person simply isn't looking. (and if you're in the blind spot they won't see anything in the mirror either)

The best option (for those situations) is to change habits, never sit beside a car, sit away from the blind spot (either slow down and drop back, or speed up and get in front)

And as a last resort, if the other driver is especially stupid and blind, be ready on the horn.

Mr Morlock · Postby **Mr Morlock** » Wed Nov 18, 2015 6:52 pm

Silvia that's simply flawed thinking- if a parker is going to make a difference ( which it will not) then you might as well have your headlights on. There is no simply answer or for that matter any sure way that a tiny MX5 is going to be spotted by a truck or fwd or SUV driver who is not checking their mirrors. I have literally been run off the road by a prime mover and only the road holding of the MX-5 stopped the car from rolling. It has made me even more wary and pulling beside a semi on a highway is not a good feel - how do you know they can see you? HKS points are totally valid i.e. get an air horn as well.

DRL's are known safety feature - plenty of studies done overseas to prove that.

I bet people have sold MX-5s on the basis that they don't feel safe in them.

manga_blue · Postby **manga_blue** » Sat Nov 28, 2015 11:02 pm

AUSTRALIAN VEHICLE STANDARDS RULES - REG 85

(4) When on, a daytime running light must:

(a) show a white or yellow light visible from the front of the vehicle; and

(b) not use over 25 watts power.

Note The third edition ADRs only allow white daytime running lights.

Pity about that. I've been tooling around Tokyo for the last few days and a lot of the newer cars and trucks here have bright sapphire blue DRLs. They really stand out much better than white in daylight.

joshuam · Postby **joshuam** » Sat Nov 28, 2015 11:45 pm

Mr Morlock wrote:joshuam comments are interesting but at what cost? Sounds like he has done a lot of homework. Designing a headlamp and optics is a specialist job. I did ask an automotive photometrist what the leds were like but he merely said they were ok provided you can get enough light output?? There are still many QH systems which perform very well on high and low beam. Many of us agree that on an MX-5 a drl ( std now on an ND) is a good thing to have. LED headlamps are increasingly being used as well but whether they really offer any big benefit over a halogen projector I am not sure. I am fussy with my lights but still find the low beam projector very good on the NBP2. The link does show some products that may well be usable and should be full plug in and perform as required by a drl. The units I bought are Philips daylight 4's and easy to fit on an NB and fully functional and the fog lights remain untouched.

Sivia is right - you can use the headlamps and many authorities actually recommend it but its a somewhat wasteful use of the resource and a bit of nuisance having the tailights lit to no good use in the day.

Yes, I have done a lot of research. Its a project I intend to do next year, and will definitely not be for the faint of heart (It will also cost a LOT). I am just graduating as an elec engineer and it is just a bit of fun for me post-uni.

LED headlights have come a long way (as in OEM applications, I don't like retrofit kits). They are not to the same standard as high quality bixenon HID projectors, but they are better than a standard halogen projector. I am interested in them because of their size, packaging and ADRs. The standard halogen projector requires a separate high beam light... I want to get rid of that. HID lights can be packaged as one, but in Australia require an auto-levelling system and washers. I was tempted to try and retrofit something ***this idea is insane***, but it is a lot of unnecessary weight and complexity. LED hedlights are small, combine low and high beam in one projector, and do not need a washer or leveling system in Aus. I was actually thinking about using the LED units out of a new ND headlight if I can find some smashed up ones for a reasonable price.

Silvia · Postby **Silvia** » Sun Nov 29, 2015 9:10 am

Good luck with this project and keep us posted on developments. With a dark blue car as low as this , special means are needed to be safe in today's traffic, even my "silvia" colour often gets missed by non vigilant drivers around and I think any daytime lights need to be more noticeable than fogs or in the grill no matter how bright. A kit that fits in the headlight cluster would be great, maybe a ring LED?
cheers!

Mr Morlock · Postby **Mr Morlock** » Mon Nov 30, 2015 3:18 pm

I don't really see it as a problem to have separate light sources i.e. projectors or reflectors for headlamps- at least from a users point of view. The NBP2 has a headlamp size that is a part of the overall design of the car and headlamps are often designed for aesthetics as well as performance. In the old days a bigger lamp i.e. reflector put out more light. Lights were regarded in the industry as jewellery and fashion dictated what was in vogue. People bought xenon lamps often because they looked cool or were upmarket i.e. a fashion statement. Incidentally the days of designing and engineering headlamp systems in Australia are to all intents and purposes gone with the exit of local makers.

joshuam · Postby **joshuam** » Mon Nov 30, 2015 4:36 pm

Mr Morlock wrote:I don't really see it as a problem to have separate light sources i.e. projectors or reflectors for headlamps- at least from a users point of view. The NBP2 has a headlamp size that is a part of the overall design of the car and headlamps are often designed for aesthetics as well as performance. In the old days a bigger lamp i.e. reflector put out more light. Lights were regarded in the industry as jewellery and fashion dictated what was in vogue. People bought xenon lamps often because they looked cool or were upmarket i.e. a fashion statement. Incidentally the days of designing and engineering headlamp systems in Australia are to all intents and purposes gone with the exit of local makers.

From a user point of view, there isn't a problem. It comes down to packaging though, the NBP2 headlights are very efficiently packaged.... there isn't much room to play around with, and to make an OEM looking upgrade I need to get rid of the big reflector dish to free up space.

I agree with all of your points. The thing is, I WANT to update the look of the lights. I am pretty happy with the output of my NB projector headlights, but I want some DRL and I want to take the opportunity to update the whole look. The current fashions are clear lenses, black surrounds (not coming out to the front of the lens), chrome highlights and DRL.

I plan to make custom tail lights too (I had already started buying materials to make some for my last car when I sold it and got the 5). It is very hard to design something that is modern, achievable, but still ties in with the rest of the car.

I have been back to the drawing board a few times, but I now have a design that I think will work well for the headlights (tail lights I am still struggling with.... I want to maintain the circular element that the MX5 has always had, without just doing the typical drop in of a big LED ring).

I will put up some designs when I have a chance. This is the easy bit though, making them will require a lot of time, money and some skills that I don't have yet. Should be fun though. I plan to use factory car (sold in Aus) donor light assemblies for a projector and high beam, to make sure that it is all to ADR, because I can't test that kind of stuff. The DRL and indicators will be custom, but designed to ADR (not that I will be able to get them approved).

hks_kansei · Postby **hks_kansei** » Mon Nov 30, 2015 4:55 pm

joshuam wrote:I plan to use factory car (sold in Aus) donor light assemblies for a projector and high beam, to make sure that it is all to ADR, because I can't test that kind of stuff. .

A good idea, but be aware that once you modify the parts, or use them in a method they were not originally designed for ie: in a different car) they are no longer ADR approved.

ADR approval really only says the part is approved for the purpose it's designed for.

Mr Morlock · Postby **Mr Morlock** » Mon Nov 30, 2015 11:42 pm

Going back a number of posts Silvia queried the comment about wasted resource and tail lights on. The halogen bulbs have a service life before needing replacement. The quickest way to knock up hours of service life is to run lights in daylight and only achieve visibility. Drls have a extremely long life probably outlasting the car. As for rear lights the same applies except that you don't need rear visibility in daylight ie the stop light does that job.

The rear combo lamp on the NB is regarded as a first class design and has great functional ability. The shape of the lens etc is achieved with a tool that no Diys has access to and that is injection moulding.

Jointly we have shown that a drl is pretty easy to do as aftermarket but it then comes down to appearance. The silver NB which was pictured looked terrific to me and follows the same style as many OE vehicles.