Operation TLC

Chat to do with your MX5/Miata/Eunos Garage Ride(s).

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speed
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Re: Operation TLC

Postby speed » Sun Jul 12, 2015 9:23 am

speed wrote:If only I could clone you and have that clone live in my garage. (Google new TV show called; humans)
So knowledable and helpful :)

Sorry, was replying to Grants comment but I stuffed the quote.

Should have also mentioned that i'm excited for the parts that you are about to receive and hope you get some more time to work on her soon :)
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ndragun
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Re: Operation TLC

Postby ndragun » Wed Jul 29, 2015 10:28 pm

Thanks speed ;)
Looks like I AM finally getting a bit of time! Finally fixed the tacho this evening thanks to some forum help;
http://mx5cartalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=69024

Such a simple fix.

Have also fitted Wilwoods on the front and 15x8 6ULs all round with RE002s.
The ubiquitous nighttime pictures don't do them justice, but gee they're a nice wheel;

Image

Image

The current ride height is legal and the wheels do catch the front guards on entry up my driveway, since its a bit of an off-kilter entry off the street and very steep, so I've got one spring compressed while the opposite side is more or less fully unloaded. I've since rolled the front guards and it has fixed it. The rear guards don't seem to catch anywhere but I literally can't get my finger between the guard and the tyre. I've not done an alignment, nor has the car been cornerweighted as yet. Just eyeballing the rears, they're sitting with heaps of negative camber, so I suspect the rear guards will need a bit of work as well to get them to clear.

As for the Wilwoods - lovely bit of kit. Despite the big cams, I've still got more than enough vacuum, and so the pedal feel is fantastic. Pad changes with these calipers would take seconds.
The only downside so far is the braided brake lines I have are probably 10mm shorter than I'd like them to be, so at full lock they're right on the limit. They will probably be changed.

Next up - hopefully this weekend will be making up a little custom mounting block for the IAC valve I have, and then there's nothing left but tuning (yea right)!
1994 MX5 Clubman
Jenvey ITBs, ported head, Kelford 203-D cams, stock-ish bottom end, Maxim Works header, MS2
XIDAs, Wilwoods, 6ULs

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Jeo
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Re: Operation TLC

Postby Jeo » Thu Jul 30, 2015 12:50 pm

Wheels look the business. Nicely done.

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Re: Operation TLC

Postby mrpham » Thu Jul 30, 2015 2:04 pm

Are you using the stock idle valve?
Current Forum Specials!

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ndragun
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Re: Operation TLC

Postby ndragun » Thu Jul 30, 2015 2:23 pm

mrpham wrote:Are you using the stock idle valve?


No - I'm aiming to use a PWM type valve found on a lot of Fords (apparently).
Looks like this;

Image

Image

I chose it purely because it looks to be the easiest to make a mount up for it with an 'in' and an 'out' hole... I plan to just run a couple of pipes to it, one plugged in to the back of the filter backing plate that draws filtered air, and the other plugged into the vacuum block. That's the theory anyway...!
1994 MX5 Clubman
Jenvey ITBs, ported head, Kelford 203-D cams, stock-ish bottom end, Maxim Works header, MS2
XIDAs, Wilwoods, 6ULs

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gslender
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Re: Operation TLC

Postby gslender » Fri Jul 31, 2015 9:29 am

That's the same valve used on the NB so not so Ford after all!!!


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ndragun
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Re: Operation TLC

Postby ndragun » Fri Jul 31, 2015 10:38 am

Oh well I feel better about that then. I was uneasy about using a part that supposedly belongs on a Mustang...!
The photos above anyway are just indicative. The valve I have looks slightly different - a big longer bodied and the plug orientation is a little different, but I'm sure they're all fundamentally the same.

Anyways - have a big old chunk of stock aluminium on my desk now, so will drill a few holes with the drillpress tonight and see how far we get!
1994 MX5 Clubman
Jenvey ITBs, ported head, Kelford 203-D cams, stock-ish bottom end, Maxim Works header, MS2
XIDAs, Wilwoods, 6ULs

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ndragun
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Re: Operation TLC

Postby ndragun » Sun Aug 02, 2015 9:29 pm

Butchered a big hunk of aluminium this arv;

Image

Image

Image

So the plan is to mount this to the back side of the filter backing plate. The barb fitting on the very left of the pic above will just screw through a hole cut in the plate, and then into the threaded hole in this little mounting block. The other barb fitting will be piped straight across to the vac block that is already mounted under there. Should be nice and clean providing it all fits nicely and fixes securely.
1994 MX5 Clubman
Jenvey ITBs, ported head, Kelford 203-D cams, stock-ish bottom end, Maxim Works header, MS2
XIDAs, Wilwoods, 6ULs

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ndragun
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Re: Operation TLC

Postby ndragun » Fri Aug 21, 2015 12:44 am

Well... disregard the above :lol:

Due to thoughtlessness (and lets be honest, a bit of a lack of an understanding of how this idle-valve actually functions), my little mounting block isn't going to work. The way the valve is oriented on the block means it won't mate to the filter backing plate...
Needs to be a bit of a different shape to mount it successfully. So with a bit of luck, will cut out a different shape on the weekend for take two.

So as a bit of a nerd-out digression though, I thought I'd share just exactly how the damn thing works for anyone that cares. Point being, that on my coffee breaks I go searching on the internet for the answers to life's meaningful questions (i.e. how do we get our ITBs working properly with our A/C on our early model MX5s), and more often than not, I end up on some forum reading through posts of someone else's trials and errors. A few are gold, many are not. Maybe this'll help someone.

So here it is with a little bit of a chicken sketch alongside of the in and the out ports, and the inner workings.

Image

First things first - the mechanics of the thing. Basically its a little plastic sleeve around a shaft. It is pulled by vacuum against the housing (the 'sleeve' is the black bit in my sketch, the housing is the hatched bit) to close it up and form a seal. The motor unit pulls the plunger downward (in this picture) and so moves the plastic sleeve away from the housing to let extra air through to adjust idle when AC comes on or whatever.

This is a pulse-width modulation two wire valve. It is a Ford part.
It will be controlled by an MS2. In my reading, the Ford/Bosch valves work (best) at around the 300-320Hz setting in TunerStudio. No idea what that means to be honest but we'll go with that for now. I read somewhere at one point that Ford's method of testing these parts was to bench-run them at a certain frequency for a while and see if they get hot. If they don't get too hot to the touch, then goodoh... That's science for ya.
It has to be wired in the correct polarity. I had it wired the wrong way round first up and nothing happened, switched the wires and it started buzzing away...

This valve uses a 'closed-loop' algorithm. So what this (apparently) means is the ECU will cycle it up (or down) until it determines that a specific RPM has been reached. So I suppose when I hit the AC button it will cycle up and then hunt about a bit until the ECU finds the right RPM.

Thats the theory anyway.


Meanwhile, car is running well enough to do the school runs. Baby steps...
1994 MX5 Clubman
Jenvey ITBs, ported head, Kelford 203-D cams, stock-ish bottom end, Maxim Works header, MS2
XIDAs, Wilwoods, 6ULs

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ndragun
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Re: Operation TLC

Postby ndragun » Mon Sep 21, 2015 1:37 pm

The idle struggles continue...

At this stage, I'm seriously doubting the MS2's ability to be able to control an idle valve. It may be firmware related I don't know...

I've now resorted to using an actual valve from an NB, rather than the ford valve. The NB valve is identical to the ford valve in terms of mounting, but it is a bit stubbier, and so physically fits a little better. That's about where the good news ends.

Set up the valve using closed-loop algorithm in MS2 - nothing happens. Attempting to open and close the valve using the idle valve test mode - nothing happens. I CAN however send a signal to it from the I/O test mode in tuner studio on the FIDLE output, and I can see the plunger in the valve click open and closed... But everything else yields nada.

Where it gets REALLY weird, is if I change the algorithm to an open-loop warmup idle and restart the car, now the tacho needle jumps all over the place (??????? :shock:) But again, no amount of fiddling with settings yields a change in the behaviour of the actual valve.


So - that weirdness leads me to believe that the problem is with the MS2 itself. So I've got posts / emails out there seeking advice... but basically I'm at the point where this MS2 box is one short step away from the bin.
1994 MX5 Clubman
Jenvey ITBs, ported head, Kelford 203-D cams, stock-ish bottom end, Maxim Works header, MS2
XIDAs, Wilwoods, 6ULs

speed
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Re: Operation TLC

Postby speed » Mon Sep 21, 2015 2:38 pm

Sorry to hear you are having idle issues. Will happily take that MS2 off you and save it from the bin :)

Have not actually messed with the additional idle functions but an autotune cleaned up my idle and my car is currently running very well without any additional adjustments.

Will play a bit more when I can and update you if I find anything useful :)
NA6 turbo - 140kw atw - not the most powerful but so much fun :D

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ndragun
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Re: Operation TLC

Postby ndragun » Mon Sep 21, 2015 2:59 pm

speed wrote:Sorry to hear you are having idle issues. Will happily take that MS2 off you and save it from the bin :)

Have not actually messed with the additional idle functions but an autotune cleaned up my idle and my car is currently running very well without any additional adjustments.

Will play a bit more when I can and update you if I find anything useful :)


Yea its a bit frustrating... At fixed idle now, its actually behaving relatively well. Nice and stable around 800ish rpm. I've given it a bit of advance and its a touch rich at idle, and it does fine.
But the problems I ultimately want to solve are;

1. I want to use the idle valve to give it a tiny bit of air during cranking rather than having to just lightly open the throttles. Currently it can occasionally take a few goes to get it started. With the aggressive cams and too much air (i.e. opening the throttles too much) the starter motor can struggle to turn it over. I want to be able to start it without any throttle input.

2. I have a SPAL fan (bloody noisy it is too!) that uses a lot of juice when it turns on, and drops the idle down just below 800rpm and starts to get a bit shuddery.

3. I want my A/C back!

I could just jack up the idle using the idle screws... but that would be admitting defeat. :oops:
1994 MX5 Clubman
Jenvey ITBs, ported head, Kelford 203-D cams, stock-ish bottom end, Maxim Works header, MS2
XIDAs, Wilwoods, 6ULs

sailaholic
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Re: Operation TLC

Postby sailaholic » Mon Sep 21, 2015 5:55 pm

Setting idle with the screws won't solve your load related idle problems. May as well run carbs and electronic ignition at that point :P


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speed
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Re: Operation TLC

Postby speed » Mon Sep 21, 2015 6:27 pm

I plan on doing points 1, 2 & 3 myself.
Are you running itb's or have I confused you with someone else?
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Re: Operation TLC

Postby Magpie » Mon Sep 21, 2015 6:42 pm

1. My setup has ITB's and a decent cam duration. No idle air and no problems on starting. It is very easy to start, in neutral, foot flat turn key and it starts (sometimes needs a second or third attempt). Go for a lithium battery save weight and get more omph for starting.

2. I have 2 X SPAL fans and no issue with idle load when they kick in.

3. No air con either.

I have no idle issues with my build


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