Help me identify this roll bar

[greenMachine]

If it is CAMS approved, it will have a sticker saying so, and should have paperwork. I HIGHLY doubt that it complies, bolted members is a no-no.

I'm not saying this cage is Cams approved, BUT bolted members on backstays & diagonals is fine - see Schedule J in Cams manual.
Bond Roll Bars still make Cams & FIA approved 'bolt in' & 'bolted joint' roll bars.

Cheers

The following is for the record only, the OP has already decided how he wants to play this issue.

My reading of that schedule is different to yours (no surprise, it is a difficult read!!). I read it that bolted joints are only allowable on 'optional' members of the structure (eg a side intrusion bar between a half cage and a forward hoop, or a forward stay to a half cage). I read it that the stays on a half cage (BD, AGI etc) must be welded. There is some confusion on my part about the diagonal, whether it might be bolted or needs to be welded. Schedule is here, Sections 12 and 13 are the main ones of relevance to this discussion.

There is also some very poor wording which does not make it clear whether these requirements are only for State and above events, but that is probably not really relevant because organisers call up these regs in their event regs, and whether or not CAMS requires it, if the organisers call for it then it applies to that event.

[Dan]

My reading of that schedule is different to yours (no surprise, it is a difficult read!!). I read it that bolted joints are only allowable on 'optional' members of the structure (eg a side intrusion bar between a half cage and a forward hoop, or a forward stay to a half cage). I read it that the stays on a half cage (BD, AGI etc) must be welded. There is some confusion on my part about the diagonal, whether it might be bolted or needs to be welded. Schedule is here, Sections 12 and 13 are the main ones of relevance to this discussion.

In section 16 which covers removable members it says "Dismountable joints complying with Drawings J-47, J-50, J-53, J-56 and J-57 shall be used only for attaching optional members and reinforcements described by Article 12.2" and also "They are not permitted for joining the upper parts of the main roll bar, the front roll bar, the lateral half roll bars or the lateral roll bars (refer Drawings J-2, J-3 and J-4)."

Diagonal members it's pretty clear its ok because 13.1c says "Each diagonal member shall be straight and may be removable."

For the rear stays in section 12 it says "Each backstay shall be attached to the main or lateral roll bar near the roofline and near the top outer bend on each side of the vehicle. A removable connection may be used." but section 12 only covers full cages and where they talk about the same thing on half cages it's not as clearly stated if a removable connection is ok but since I wouldn't consider it part of the excluded parts they talk about in section 16 I think it's ok for the rear stays on half cages too (my BD Roll bar which they issued CAMS paperwork for has a removable rear stay).

[1600Dave]

Didn't CAMS change the rules a couple of years ago though that made it a lot easier for a lot of bars to get passed for use at events (ie: club type time trial stuff, not door-to-door stuff)

I seem to remember something about (for the more casual events run to CAMS specs) that they only had to have a scrutineer say it looked like it wasn't a danger (not that it was actually useful in a rollover)

I think what you're getting at is that in events that don't require a cage at all (supersprints, regularity, etc), you are allowed to run whatever cage you like as long as the scrutineers don't think its dangerous (stuff like being bolted together and having bolt heads or threads imposing into the driver's cabin area ready to punch a neat little hole in your skull may result in a knock back from the scrute). They don't consider whether it will be any benefit in a rollover, just that it won't hurt you in any way.

My old Datsun for instance has run a bolt-in alloy cage for well over 20 years, it doesn't meet CAMS specs in any way nowadays but I still run it in sprints and regularity. Scrutineers check I have the correct padding, etc so it isn't a danger to my noggin, but don't care that it isn't logbooked and doesn't meet CAMS specs.

For events that require a cage (door-to-door and the like) you need a cage built to meet the specs outlined by CAMS, using material outlined by CAMS.

[hks_kansei]

^ you said it a lot more clearly than I did.

That's exactly what I was getting at.

[greenMachine]

Thanks Dan, I obviously missed that .

Is your BD the one for the NC? I have never heard about an NA/NB bar with removable stays, but maybe that is something else I have missed!

[Dan]

Thanks Dan, I obviously missed that .

Is your BD the one for the NC? I have never heard about an NA/NB bar with removable stays, but maybe that is something else I have missed!

No probs, you had me worried for a bit that my BD bar wasn't really compliant with removable rear stays haha

Yeh my BD bar is for the NC, they put removable rear stays on it so that you still have the rear stays for CAMS compliance but can still use the soft top when you remove them.

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