Strange noise from lifters

[oozmakappa]

Alright some background first

I discovered that my 1990 NA6 N/A MX5 had some power issues a month ago, and so upon dismantling the crank bolt, the thread was crossthreaded, so an engine swap was imminent.

Details about the engine that went in:

Stock motor, with brand new seals and gaskets all installed, with 100ks on it.

Engine sat for 10-15 years without being touched after the car it was in was written off due to accident damage.


After removing my own engine and bolting on the AC and PS add-ons, it was mounted into the car with 15w40 oil, and now there are 3 problems

1) Oil seems to be leaking from the oil pump, the alternator is wet from the oil leak (will post pictures soon)
2) Lifter noise does not go away even after 3 minutes of running
3) Weird noise from cams

Does anyone have any input on this issue or came across this before? Any advice appreciated!

[hks_kansei]

If it's sat for so long I would put money on the lifters being absolutely caked in dried thick oil.
Since they're Hydros on the early B6 they won't be able to pump up.

The lifter and Cam noise will likely be related, since well, the cams press the lifters.

Step 1 would be to replace the oil pump seals or whetever to stop the leak, once that’s done then I’d clean out the lifters.

The simplest (assuming that new lifters are out of the budget) would be to remove them all and drop them into a container of kerosene (or other degreaser)
Let them soak and swish them around every so often, you’ll be wanting to get all the oil out of the inside of them (they’ll probably have a tiny pinhole inside a little lip, that’s where the oil goes in to pressurize them)

Once they’re clean and you’ve got any gunk out of them, give them a blow off and drop them into a container of clean, new oil. You should see air bubbles come from the pinholes, wait until the air stops and then you’re ready to put them back in the engine (the oil bath fills them with clean oil so that when you first start the car they pump up faster)

If you buy new lifters you’ll still need to do the oil bit.

[manga_blue]

1) You probably need to replace the front crank oil seal again. The new one in there was either faulty or damaged during the install. They do not self-heal.
2) The lifters are probably gummed up after sitting unused for years. miaiat.net has a section on how to dismantle and clean lifters, it's a PITA but ... Otherwise try swapping in the lifters from your old engine.
3) What sort of weird noise?

[oozmakappa]

1) You probably need to replace the front crank oil seal again. The new one in there was either faulty or damaged during the install. They do not self-heal.
2) The lifters are probably gummed up after sitting unused for years. miaiat.net has a section on how to dismantle and clean lifters, it's a PITA but ... Otherwise try swapping in the lifters from your old engine.
3) What sort of weird noise?

If it's sat for so long I would put money on the lifters being absolutely caked in dried thick oil.
Since they're Hydros on the early B6 they won't be able to pump up.

The lifter and Cam noise will likely be related, since well, the cams press the lifters.

Step 1 would be to replace the oil pump seals or whetever to stop the leak, once that’s done then I’d clean out the lifters.

The simplest (assuming that new lifters are out of the budget) would be to remove them all and drop them into a container of kerosene (or other degreaser)
Let them soak and swish them around every so often, you’ll be wanting to get all the oil out of the inside of them (they’ll probably have a tiny pinhole inside a little lip, that’s where the oil goes in to pressurize them)

Once they’re clean and you’ve got any gunk out of them, give them a blow off and drop them into a container of clean, new oil. You should see air bubbles come from the pinholes, wait until the air stops and then you’re ready to put them back in the engine (the oil bath fills them with clean oil so that when you first start the car they pump up faster)

If you buy new lifters you’ll still need to do the oil bit.

sorry if i forgot to mention this, but regarding the engine it was recoed about 2 months ago so all seals and gaskets are new

according to some reading i've done online, some people use RTV silicone to seal up the oil pump? would that work? because it's gonna be a PITA to remove the timing belt and the sump just to get to the oil plug to change a seal...

i presume running the engine till warm won't do anything to remove the gunk? because right now the car is at my mechanics and i don't really have the budget to ask him to do it for me, so my only option is to either drive it back from penrith to sydney (about an hours drive) or tow it.. which is killing my budget

@manga_blue will get a description of the noise from my mechanic tomorrow!

btw, photos of the leak!

IMAG1471.jpg

IMAG1470.jpg

[hks_kansei]

Nope, running the engine warm won't help if they're caked with gunk.

I'd be talking to the engine reconditioner, generally a reco should include new lifters (or at least cleaned)



You can buy a bottle of "lifter free" and give it a go (I think it's from Nulon, or Wynns)
It's not ideal, but might, maybe, help free them up.

The lifters are pretty easy to remove if you decide to have a go yourself.
You just remove the rocker cover, remove the cams, and the lifters will be the flat topped shiny round things sticking up under the cam lobes. carefully lift these out (pliers with a rubber nose or something... try not to use anythign that will scratch them)

Once they're out you can then clean them etc, then just put them back by pressing them into the holes again.

Put the cams back in, torque up the bolts, rocker cover back on, and it should be ready to start.

[manga_blue]

according to some reading i've done online, some people use RTV silicone to seal up the oil pump? would that work? because it's gonna be a PITA to remove the timing belt and the sump just to get to the oil plug to change a seal...

I'm just assuming it's a front oil seal leak that's making the mess there coz that's the most common problem. If it is then I've never heard of RTV actually fixing it. That seal wraps around the crankshaft nose and it's housed in the front of the oil pump. To replace it the timing belt and front crank pulley and sprocket need to be removed, nothing else. Sump stays on. If it's not catastrophically bad you can leave it for a little while to give yourself enough time to make absolutely sure that it's the problem first.

If you're paying a mechanic then a new set of HLAs is probably the best way to go. Cleaning does not always work. Often 1 or 2 never recover and you spend ages chasing your tail trying to work out which ones. Yours have done 100kkms anyway, so they're not exactly fresh. Just don't blithely buy them from Mazda - your wallet may never recover. Search through here for recommendations on HLAs and also check ebay AU, ebay US and Arlington Mazda US.

[oozmakappa]

i've been reading, apparently this problem is common in MX5s, and nothing short of replacing the HLAs @ $40 each will make the problem go away... like everyone has their own solutions, but no one actually has a common fix... do you reckon 15w40 is too thick? might have to go with a thinner oil or something non-synthetic perhaps?

[hks_kansei]

A bit tappety is common for MX5s.

if it's really loud, then it may cause more issues later (cam clearances out, lobes belting the lifters, etc)


I'm shocked that MX5 lifters are $40 each!?
Last time I bought lifters (well, my GF bought them actually) was for a Holden Red motor, and they were about $5 each from memory.

Was the $40 each from MAzda? or elsewhere?
Try Bursons or someone similar, they'll likely be a lot cheaper than Mazda.

[manga_blue]

They should be around $10US or $15AU ea. I bought a new set locally last year for a bit over $200 posted.

[tbro]

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