SE lifter noise

[manga_blue]

Good luck with sorting this one.

Vaguely on topic but I tried to buy a mint Peugeot 207GTI last week and then the owner went strangey silent. It turns out the engine made a "strange noise" when he tried to start it just after I'd contacted him. We finally looked at it today. 6 exhaust valves are bent and stuck down. 2 exhaust valves had sheared off, turned themselves upside down and speared themselves through the top of a piston. It was a bit weird to put a bore scope down and see two valves staring back up at you. Be thankful you're not trying to fix a Pug/Mini engine.

[track_addict]

Wow. Thankfully my valves are intact.

I ran a compression test today. Cylinders 1, 2 and 4 are all 175-180psi. Cylinder 3 is at 130psi. Did a leak down test. Cylinders 1,2 and 4 were all at about 65psi with 80psi going into the cylinder while cylinder 3 was around 45-50psi. I found it hard to narrow down where the air was going but its not where it should be. Still dont really know whats going on. I also took some more photos with the bore scope. Cylinder 3 looks worse then it did last weekend but I have run it for about 5 minutes since taking the first lot of pictures. There is also some nasty marks on the bore of cylinder 3 as well. Finally, there is a tight spot mainly on cylinders 1 and 4 at TDC, when turning the engine over by hand.

This is #3 last weekend.



This is #3 today, after running for a few minutes over the week.









And the marks on the bore. Not sure what to make of these.















Sorry for the picture heavy post.

[tbro]

I'd be looking at your throttle body for a missing screw, common problem.
Those photos are really bad to try and see anything but if all the other pistons are clean then something has gone through the cylinder,
looks like your pulling your motor.

Terry

[manga_blue]

Maybe a broken ring?

[thehillsarecalling]

I'd be looking at your throttle body for a missing screw, common problem.
Those photos are really bad to try and see anything but if all the other pistons are clean then something has gone through the cylinder,
looks like your pulling your motor.

Terry

Terry, is this something that we should be including on our "service items that aren't in the manual" list? Removing the screws, loctite and reinstall? Or remove and redesign?

I assume you're referring to the small screws on the butterfly itself?

[Lokiel]

Being an SE, it wouldn't surprise me if your OEM intercooler pipes are rusted badly on the inside and you've sucked some rust flakes through the engine

You can not-so-easily check this by decoupling the cold-side intercooler plumbing and look inside - now that they're 10 years old, they should either be replaced or given a damn good cleanout.

[hks_kansei]

Maybe a broken ring?

I'd say that's a possibility.

Otherwise, the flakes look very similar to bearing material (when the engine let go on the GF's Kingswood it took out the cam bearings.... which left very similar flakes in the engine, and left similar marks on the bore)

Otherwise Lokiel may be on the money.

It certainly looks like only tiny bits of metal.



being turbocharged, there's also the possibility of damaged turbo blades, maybe something's damaged them previously and a few bits have come off?

[Lokiel]

:
being turbocharged, there's also the possibility of damaged turbo blades, maybe something's damaged them previously and a few bits have come off?

Don't forget that there's an intercooler "filter" between the turbo and the intake manifold so I don't think that's a possibility (unless they're really,really,really small pieces).

[tbro]

Terry, is this something that we should be including on our "service items that aren't in the manual" list? Removing the screws, loctite and reinstall? Or remove and redesign?

I assume you're referring to the small screws on the butterfly itself?

Only if your going to rev the tits of the thing then buy an aftermarket throttle body.
I've had one screw let go and stuffed if I could tell where it went, think you just have to be unlucky
to have one damage anything. I think Lou has also lost a screw (that just don't look right ) and I think he's went through ok as well.

My opinion leave well enough alone and don't worry about it or you'll just go bonkers.

Terry

[track_addict]

Yes bore scope isn't the greatest for picture quality but its the best I can do.

Have more or less confirmed the low compression is due to a ring. I poured some oil into the cylinder, turned it over a bit, then did a compression test and the compression came up to 170psi, equal to the other cylinders. I restarted the engine after and pulled each ignition lead off one at a time to see if the noise would go away, indicating a bearing in the bottom end. That didn't work. Had a listen around the engine, just by ear, not with a stethoscope or anything and I'm almost convinced the noise is in the head.

Started to pull it all apart over the weekend, almost there. Head will come off for me to look at, then I'll send it off to be built nice and proper. So, if anyone can recommend a builder that would be great! Or even better, if anyone has a second hand forged engine they dont want......

[track_addict]

So I pulled the motor today and got the head off. Since pictures speak louder than words...



Fairly sure its a bent rod as there is no play when you turn the engine over and both pistons go down uniformly. Am I right to say this is an indication of a bent rod? Will buy an engine stand so I can flip it over and take the sump off to check the bottom end.

SO, who's got a second hand built motor?!

[manga_blue]

It's not as bad as it could have been. I take it that the head is OK but there is a bit of bore damage?

Buy Zossy's short block, swap the pistons for lower compression ones, sell the high compression ones and you've then got a solid motor at a reasonable price.

You might also sell the old block cheap to someone doing a full race engine.

[track_addict]

Yes, you're right. Could of been a lot worse. Bore damage isnt actually as bad as those pictures make it out to be. The dark marks, you cant even feel. Cylinder 2 has one scratch on the bore which you can feel with your finger nail but I dont think it is that bad.

I thought the bore's were too big on zossy's motor for boosted applications? I've read that people say 85mm is the absolute max and even then not to run big power? It has crossed my mind but its only the bore size that is stopping me. I'm also considering assembling a motor my self. Stripping the old one, sending it off for machining and balancing, then assembling it myself. Still unsure which way to go.

[track_addict]

So I've got to the bottom of this one after getting back from my Japan trip. I bought an engine stand, put the engine on that, got the head and sump off. Surprise, surprise what did I find?! One really bent rod. Bent in two directions actually. Very impressive. The tick/knock noise is due to the piston coming down to far at BDC and hitting the oil squirter. This is also the tight spot in the engine. If anyone is interested I can post some average phone pictures.

Sump is back on now and I'm looking into picking someone to build the engine for me. I just wish the AUD was stronger at the moment!

All in all, its not too bad. Forged rods and pistons to fix the factory flaws, replace the oil squirter and do a "normal" rebuild with nice bits. Bores look good so thats a plus. Just didnt want to fork out for a build so soon.

[SlugRacer]

Ohh snap! That's how my rod was, shaped like an s and piston hitting oil squirter. You could probably get away with just the rods but it's open now so...

Good luck with the rebuild mate