Cooling an SE on the track

Roadrunner · Postby **Roadrunner** » Fri Jun 05, 2015 6:00 pm

I am getting a bit concerned about my SE in the temperature department now that it is starting to see more track days.
Iv'e been doing a lot a research but thought I'd ask for a consensus especially from the SE owners out there who track their cars.

I've been doing a few track days at Marulan and last weekend my first day at Wakefield. My wife and I share the car so it gets double the workout per round.
With me pushing hard, the temps have been getting up around the 105-107* mark (peak 109*) which I am not at all comfortable with.
Car has all the under tray panelling on.
Radiator is a Koyo 37mm and have filled all the gaps top bottom and sides with foam.
With the factory radiator I did hit 112* at Marulan on a very hot day, backed off immediately and it cooled down rather fast. Since swapping to the Koyo 37mm rad it seems to be a few degrees cooler but still above 100degrees after a few laps. More concerning was at Wakefield and the last Marulan day was it was freezing. Top of 12degrees off track I think. Id hate to do Wakefield on a stinking hot day!

Daily and spirited mountain driving it never overs goes over 98 degrees and usually sits around 96 degress (except for one drive once up a very looong steep hill in third gear it got to 103*). As soon as I back off at the track the temps drop immediately.

My main question is: Is this kind of temp on track normal for an SE with only power upgrade being an exhaust?
I have read over on the Mazda-speed forums that SE's generally run hot, especially the oil so an oil cooler is highly recommended.

I have MX5Mania sorting an oil cooler for me at the moment. Either a full works oil relocator and cooler, or an oil cooler setup to work in with my current Thompson oil filter relocation kit.
I do have an intercooler but its only the 140mm high one and I'll done the mounts to not block air flow to the radiator.

Before going all out with bonnet vents etc for the track, is this temperature behaviour normal for a near stock SE on the track? Or should I be looking for an underlying problem?

Apu · Postby **Apu** » Fri Jun 05, 2015 6:18 pm

I'm working on a water spray on both intercooler and oil cooler. That way I can control cooling (to some extent) and prevent "overcooling" when not on the track / pushing hard.

hks_kansei · Postby **hks_kansei** » Fri Jun 05, 2015 6:26 pm

There were a few really good articles on intercooler water sprays on Autospeed a few years back, they're worth looking up to get ideas since Julian did a heap of testing as to most efficient spray patterns etc.

Magpie · Postby **Magpie** » Fri Jun 05, 2015 6:34 pm

Not a long term solution, but when the temperature gets too high turn the heater on (demist) and draw some heat off that way.

Roadrunner · Postby **Roadrunner** » Fri Jun 05, 2015 6:52 pm

Cheers, I did the heater thing at Marulan last time I was there but didn't at Wakefield as I wanted to see what the temps would do normally on a bigger longer track (Marulan is very tight narrow and twisty, all second third gear and max 120kph)
This is why I'm curious if getting to this temp in the SE is normal and expected, that way I can put the effort into enhancing the current cooling with oil coolers, sprayers, vents and the like, rather than unknowingly band aiding over an issue with that stuff and that overheating issue still being there behind the scenes

Magpie · Postby **Magpie** » Fri Jun 05, 2015 7:02 pm

Confirm the temps first then. Are you using aftermarket sensors? I found around 9 deg difference in both oil and water temps between Innovate and the Haltech sensors. The innovate read high so I guess this is safer.

I see around 96 water and 105 oil when on the track {Haltech). However mine is not a SE.

Tony · Postby **Tony** » Fri Jun 05, 2015 8:35 pm

My SE used to run hot on the track and I tried just about everything to work around it. It was driving me mad!

The problem went away as soon as I fitted the Adaptronic and got a proper tune. I suspect it was running pretty lean before the swap.

I also fitted a Flyin' Miata cross flow radiator just to be sure and have not had a hint of high engine temperatures since, even on 38 degree days.

Although the air temp was fairly low at Wakefield last weekend, my max water temp recorded was 93 deg C. I was running in the mid to low 1:09s most of the day.

Do yourself a favour and get rid of the OEM ECU, it will transform the car in so many areas.

Roadrunner · Postby **Roadrunner** » Fri Jun 05, 2015 8:50 pm

Yes Iv been reading about overly lean tunes making cars run hot on the track, and the SE factory tune has a very lean spot.
At the moment I'm using an obd scanner to display coolant temp on my head unit. I assume that would be rather accurate but am getting some innovate coolant and oil temp dual gauges soon.
Maybe an ECU will be on the cards sooner than later

Postby **NitroDann** » Fri Jun 05, 2015 9:16 pm

Need to know your power and lap times to tell you for sure.

Apu · Postby **Apu** » Fri Jun 05, 2015 9:23 pm

My oil temp has hit 110degC just sitting in traffic! What is important is how quickly the heat can dissipate.

I did hit 120degC at an open track day, but that's also understandable since I would have easily run twice as many laps than at an MX5 club day. Nothing a slow lap didn't solve.

It's understandable that temps will spike when the car is pushed and I don't get worried until oil temp hits 120-130degC or if I can't shed the heat if the car is moving (and not being pushed).

I'll be using the fan spray nozzle from the recent group buy - that will spread the water over a larger area of the coolers.

Roadrunner · Postby **Roadrunner** » Fri Jun 05, 2015 10:05 pm

NitroDann wrote:Need to know your power and lap times to tell you for sure.

160hp at the wheels on factory ECU doing an average of mid 1.16's at Wakefield. (Quickest lap 1.16.25)

Postby **NitroDann** » Fri Jun 05, 2015 11:18 pm

That should be fine on your setup. Id assume something is wrong. And Id suggest the tune is poo.

Roadrunner · Postby **Roadrunner** » Sat Jun 06, 2015 11:10 am

Yeah when you put my car on your dyno it's showed how crap the factory ECU tune is.

Thanks everyone, just wanted to confirm what was 'normal'.

Will still get the oil cooler sorted plus some calibrated gauges to monitor it all and accelerate my plans for an aftermarket ECU and a decent tune.

Magpie · Postby **Magpie** » Sat Jun 06, 2015 11:34 am

Roadrunner wrote: but am getting some innovate coolant and oil temp dual gauges soon.

I would sell you mine, but I know that they are not accurate rather they read 9 deg C higher oil/water temps than they actually are. The Innovate pressure guage also displays less than the actual.

Don't get me wrong I am a fan of Innovate stuff, but very dissappointed with their technical department when I raised the issue of calibrating the sensors. It is not possible to calibrate, you can change the volt/temp in Logworks if you are recodring the data but you cannot change what is displayed on the guage. Another thing to consider is if you are going to an aftermarket ECU they will have their own sensors and you could be doubling up. This is one of the mistakes I made in my build, but fixing it hence why the guages could be for sale soon.

Trying to not get too far off topic, but a PS1000 can log at 10mHz upto 6 sensors and this lasts about 45mins. If you have a dash like an IQ3 then the sensors going to your ECU can be displayed. In fact if the ECU has a CAN output then it can be displayed by any compatabile device.