Clutch? Starter? Both? (NA6)

dsjoyce · Postby **dsjoyce** » Sun Apr 12, 2015 5:56 pm

Hi all,

Long story short, I thought my starter motor packed up and so my friend and I tried to change it today. Ultimately we were defeated by seized bolts, so in the end we decided to push start and drive to mechanics. This is where we discovered that the car will not move when pushed when in gear (with the clutch peddle pressed of course). It feels like pushing a car with the brakes are on. However, in 5th gear I can get the car to move which makes me think the clutch is not disengaging properly. When stationary the shifter moves freely through all the gears. The car can be rolled in neutral but cannot be shifted into gear when moving, the shifter just wont go in. This has also happened once in the past when driving and trying to change gears, the shifter just wouldn't go in. From memory I think I pumped the clutch a few times and then it would go in ok. If anyone can give me some ideas as to what the issue is I would be most grateful. The gregory's manual i have is not very helpful on this matter, but being a broke student I'm hoping it's not the clutch itself?

Cheers,

Daniel

Mr Morlock · Postby **Mr Morlock** » Sun Apr 12, 2015 8:33 pm

its pretty clear the clutch is not disengaging. All the symptoms point to the clutch not releasing . Its most likely cause is leaking clutch fluid- normally you can see a clutch fork on the gearbox moving when the pedal is depressed. Check the fluid level and take a look under the car and around the clutch reservoir- the Gregorys should explain the operation- i.e. see the diagrams and description of a clutch mechanism.

Gladiator · Postby **Gladiator** » Mon Apr 13, 2015 2:51 pm

How much fluid is in the reserviour? If it's low, top it up & re bleed the clutch, then check to see if the slave cylinder is leaking. It (leaking fluid) should be clearly visible if it is.

speed · Postby **speed** » Mon Apr 13, 2015 6:28 pm

Master can also leak in the drivers foot well. Best of luck!

project.r.racing · Postby **project.r.racing** » Mon Apr 13, 2015 6:54 pm

yeah sounds like a long ignored fluid issue. check all those things above.

aka_juffa · Postby **aka_juffa** » Tue Apr 14, 2015 3:08 pm

Wot they said ^^^^

Plus check out the big forum garage, there is a section specific to engine and drivetrain. That section includes details on adjusting and/or bleeding the clutch, replacing the clutch slave or master cylinders.

http://miata.net/garage/

J.

dsjoyce · Postby **dsjoyce** » Tue Apr 14, 2015 4:44 pm

Thanks all for the advice, i'll have to wait until the weekend to hunt this one down...

dsjoyce · Postby **dsjoyce** » Wed Apr 15, 2015 1:30 am

Master cylinder is definitely full, is it possible for the slave to fail and the master to remain full? There's also a lot of oil /clutch fluid / gunk hanging about stretching from roughly the bottom of the hard line that crosses from passenger to drivers side (between engine and firewall) down to slave cylinder. What is the likelihood of it being a leak in the hardline? Is there an easy way to pinpoint the faulty component? I see some folks in the US get braided cable that goes straight from master to slave. Good idea or no?

Mr Morlock · Postby **Mr Morlock** » Wed Apr 15, 2015 12:33 pm

- braided lines are not necessary- a system that has not leaks for faulty components is what is required. Sure a slave can be faulty but you would expect that leakage of fluid will reflect in the reservoir as well. A leakage can mean air in the system as well

dsjoyce · Postby **dsjoyce** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 12:22 am

Mr Morlock wrote:- braided lines are not necessary- a system that has not leaks for faulty components is what is required. Sure a slave can be faulty but you would expect that leakage of fluid will reflect in the reservoir as well. A leakage can mean air in the system as well

So you're suggesting that I should bleed the system as a first step?

aka_juffa · Postby **aka_juffa** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 11:40 am

Bleeding the system is not a bad idea. I would also pull back the rubber boot on the slave cylinder. If there is fluid in there, then the slave cylinder is leaking.

re the gunk on the hard line. Unlikely as it may be, that could also be a symptom of a leaking O ring on the Cam Angle Sensor. Check there is no oil running down the back of the head on the drivers side. If there is you will want to fix that O ring ASAP as it will cause a rubber plug on the back of the engine to perish and cause all sorts of grief. Info on this is in the miata.net/garage link that I posted earlier.

It could also be a symptom of a leaking master cylinder. I was having similar issues with one of my earlier NA6s. Assumed it was the slave cylinder and replaced it. Problem still there. Eventually I changed the master cylinder. No more problem. The slave cylinder is an easier, and cheaper fix....so start there.

lastly, I'd suggest giving the whole engine a good wipe down to remove any built up gunk. It will make tracking down leaks a lot easier in the future.

J.

Purfler · Postby **Purfler** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 5:01 pm

When you get all this sorted you will then get back to the starter issue. In Jan '14 I had the engine and gearbox of mine out and I thought I'd change the starter while is was off anyway. I was unable to find one that actually fitted (other than a genuine - but I wasn't going to pay that). The replacement was supposed to fit, and the guy at the parts shop followed up with the supplier while I was with him. Everything said it was correct, but there was no way the three bolts would line up with the holes. I gave up and left the original one in - I didn't the days to track one that would actually fit.

I hope you don't have the same trouble, and get the clutch issue fixed without major drama.

Tim

dsjoyce · Postby **dsjoyce** » Sun Apr 19, 2015 11:41 pm

Thanks for all the advice. So upon further inspection my crank angle sensor o ring is leaking oil, probably explains the mess around the clutch lines. To add to the list I managed to run my immobiliser remote through the washing machine, here's hoping it's not buggered :/ It never rains but it pours! So I will have to deal with the o ring first i think, then the hydraulics, then push start her to get her to a mechanic for the starter motor. Fun times!

93_Clubman · Postby **93_Clubman** » Mon Apr 20, 2015 1:48 pm

Sounds like clutch slave cylinder needs replacing at the minimum. They are fairly much a consumable item, with the original lasting about a decade or so. And of course, the lifespan of a replacement depends on its quality.

Ref starter motor, what was it doing or not doing to make you think it needs replacing? Could it be a depleted battery in conjunction with starting in gear with foot on the clutch? Just a thought as NA starter motors are fairly reliable - then again they are getting old. Obviously try starting again once you've replaced the clutch slave cylinder.

dsjoyce · Postby **dsjoyce** » Wed Apr 22, 2015 2:47 pm

Now that you mention it it could well be the battery is suspect, I trickle charged it and tried turning it over last weekend (no luck of course) but I did notice the dash lights seemed rather dim. I've only had the battery about a year though. And you're right, it could well have been me trying to start it in gear that led me to think the starter is shot. Will give the CAS o-ring a go this weekend, I assume supercheap will have the part or do i need genuine mazda...it's just a normal o-ring right?