Youth & drivrers licences

Postby **NitroDann** » Sun Apr 12, 2015 10:06 am

They make the rules and their purpose and your purpose are not one and the same. Otherwise they would change it.

Jeo · Postby **Jeo** » Sun Apr 12, 2015 1:54 pm

Can't speak on other stats but the ACT seems pretty good by comparison, albeit expensive.

Motorcycle L test is a two day course on a flat piece of tarmac, on bikes provided by the testing company. You need to have your car L's before turning up (ie; you need to have sat the online test of multiple choice questions to say that you understand the road rules). First day is roughly 1/3 theory in a classroom, 1/3 physically pushing your bike around the tarmac without it running, 1/3 putting around things in 1st gear. Day two gets you into second on the tarmac, doing some stopping/manoeuvring drills at a higher speed.

Bike P's is then a half day test on the same tarmac, before going out as a group on public roads with a few instructors leading/following/marking.

Car P's you have the option; some number of hours signed off by your parents before testing 22 competencies with a gov instructor sitting next to you, or doing the 'log book' method with an accredited driving school. The first option takes about an hour to do the test; I failed twice (too fast through a round-about, and missed a school zone sign behind a tree) and know very few people who passed first go. Second option has close on a 100% success rate but also hard to judge as there's no set number of attempts, you just keep going out for 1hr sessions until you've ticked all the competencies.

MLR · Postby **MLR** » Sun Apr 12, 2015 9:09 pm

The licencing system is a joke, we all should need to resit a theory test when we renew our licence.
I got my licence in 1980 and lots of rules have changed, due to work I have had to resit the test about 5 times over the last 10 years, strangely after some study I passed the test and no kittens were killed.

As for driver training, why not do it at school like the yanks, my kids will be trained by me and a professional, I did a advanced driving course a few years ago, even after driving for 30 years I still learnt lots.

The hard thing is trying to explain 35 years of driving experience to a kid, I do make a point of pointing out idiots and crashes to the kids explaining that if you drive like a idiot you will crash.

I've been trying to convince my young daughter to let me get her kds CAMS licence to do some driving but she has no interest in driving as yet.

I'm also a big fan of regulating the power a car can have for P platers, having no real skills except for their own epc awesomness and a higher powered or modified car is a recipe for a funeral.

Postby **NitroDann** » Mon Apr 13, 2015 12:59 pm

Age/experience and the good old 'I've had a licence for x years'.

Its the biggest cop out. Tell it to vettel.

StanTheMan · Postby **StanTheMan** » Mon Apr 13, 2015 1:37 pm

NitroDann wrote:Age/experience and the good old 'I've had a licence for x years'.

Its the biggest cop out. Tell it to vettel.

Because you are young & don't have that much?

Is it like someone who loves dogs and compares having dogs to having kids?

Depends on the person really. I know someone who shouldn't be on the road. She's older than me. But because she drives slow she feels she is being safe and she's never had a speeding ticket.

If a war veteran tells us you don't know what its like unless you were there we tend to respect them though.....right?

I would be inclined to judge that comment (Its the biggest cop out) on the person and their back ground. And a lot of times you can't judge a book by its cover.

but apart from that. Interesting conversation. Some great points.... but it seems Ive unintentionally opened a COW....

I wasn't trying to say youth has it too easy. as we Oldies had it much easier in other ways. You can't really compare it. However I must say. when it comes to driving. We Aussies (in general) are crap if we compare ourselves to some of the European drivers. There is far more courtesy on the European roads. I was really surprised.

StanTheMan · Postby **StanTheMan** » Mon Apr 13, 2015 1:46 pm

and yes
Ive asked the son to read the book. He is happy to read it. I will read it at the same time. Just so he doesn't feel as though I'm just making him do it.But the good thing is it shows he has respect. I also want to make sure he has that same respect & courtesy on the road. which is what we all need here in AU.

MLR · Postby **MLR** » Mon Apr 13, 2015 4:00 pm

NitroDann wrote:Age/experience and the good old 'I've had a licence for x years'.

Its the biggest cop out. Tell it to vettel.

How many years has he been punting around tracks? And at what age and in what type of contraption did he start?

Postby **NitroDann** » Mon Apr 13, 2015 4:17 pm

MLR wrote:
NitroDann wrote:Age/experience and the good old 'I've had a licence for x years'.

Its the biggest cop out. Tell it to vettel.

How many years has he been punting around tracks? And at what age and in what type of contraption did he start?

Read the exact words I used.

And to reply to your poorly aimed point, perfect practice makes perfect, not being a know it all serial condescender who doesnt practice good habits ever. Pay attention to who even follows the road rules, or pays attention next time you drive. It doesnt correlate with age at all, which is why road crashes hardly correlate with age either.

The good drivers are those who actually care about being good drivers, much like everything else.

Dann

MLR · Postby **MLR** » Mon Apr 13, 2015 4:48 pm

Pardon me, I wrongly assumed the vettel was a good driver for his age, my point was he has been steering since he was 4 or something giving him lots of experience for someone so young. Hence having a old (read experienced) head on his shoulders.

Postby **NitroDann** » Mon Apr 13, 2015 5:11 pm

That has nothing to do with my point and im sorry if I was so misleading.

MLR · Postby **MLR** » Mon Apr 13, 2015 5:24 pm

Was this your point?

Time equates to experience, but experience does not necessarily makes you a good and curtious driver, if so then I agree 100%.

Postby **NitroDann** » Mon Apr 13, 2015 5:42 pm

Yes that is my point.

Rocky · Postby **Rocky** » Mon Apr 13, 2015 7:03 pm

I think Dan's point about good drivers being those who really care about being good drivers is pretty right.
I have always loved driving and when I'm driving, it's all I'm focused on. Don't even listen to the radio or music. I prefer people don't talk to me.
Of course most people have no interest in driving except as a means of getting from one place to another. Therein lies the problem.
You can cajole them and try to persuade them and subject them to the most stringent standards of testing but as soon as they get the license they will do as they please because they don't care about driving.
I poured a couple of hundred hours into teaching my kids to drive but the fact they are good and safe drivers is more to do with their genetics (perfectionists like their old man) than it is to do with how well they were taught. Back in '68 I was taught by an Uncle who was a very keen and committed driver but he was preaching to the converted.
The thing about driving once around the block and getting your license from the country cop may have been true in the 50-60s in little one-horse towns but in Regional Queensland the standards were fairly rigorously enforced in my recollection. I remember going through the full gamut of hill-starts, parallel parking, and practical application of the right-of-way rules.
The only idea I can offer is to brain-wash kids from Primary school on about the right attitudes to driving, as it is all about attitude.

project.r.racing · Postby **project.r.racing** » Mon Apr 13, 2015 7:06 pm

On that subject...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opoGqpDfPAY

Mr Morlock · Postby **Mr Morlock** » Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:30 am

Liking driving has nothing much to do with a correlation to being a good driver in my experience. I know many car enthusiasts driving classy cars who are very poor drivers and I know people who are not car enthusiasts who are very good drivers. It's a fair bet that many people drive to avoid breaking laws and not to endanger themselves or other road users.

I also don't think there is a not shred of evidence that driving on a race track has anything to do with being a safe driver on the road. The conditions and the functions could scarcely be more different.

It also very tiresome anyone quoting the USA as any yardstick for good driving or good processes when the facts clearly show a far higher road toll than Australia.

I can guarantee in Melbourne getting you licence in the 60's was very simple and a process that was dependent on the whim of the Police and I have no idea how you can compare the skills of a driver then and now. But you apply that measure to almost anything in a time when the safety of citizens was barely even considered. Health and safety was in its infancy and safe cars was not on the radar. You can be sure our current systems are better and far more predictable in what is required and how the tests are conducted.

There was a comment that " car crashes hardly correlate without age either" . That's not right the stats clearly shows who are most at risk and Insurance policy premiums reflect it as well.