Youth & drivrers licences

[NitroDann]

Lol at everyone who thinks the govt cares.

[project.r.racing]

Sometimes parents need to be parents,
I told my two, I don't care if you've done 100 hours or 1000hours, your not going for your licence until you can drive safely and well!. I also told them it would kill me if something happened to them because they couldn't drive properly
Both got their licences first time and drive very well, and more importantly defensively, although like all kids they do sometimes get over confident and drive a bit quick. The old man brings them down a notch or two

I also Like Stan had to know every question and answer in the book, none of this multiple choice stuff. Make him read the book Stan I made mine read the book and at least then they know the rules, rather than how to pass the test.

At the end of the day its their lives were talking about, and there are enough idiots on the road that don't know the rules that are intent on harming the unprepared.

Cheers
Dale

One of the best responses from a parental view. I have dealings with parents while training. And if all had the same view as you Dale. All kids would pass their tests first go, and all kids could drive confidently.

If you are the parent, you are the boss. They get their permit when you say so. Simple. Make them read the book. That way you can still have you children around at age 25.

Luckily my eldest is 6, and I do not have to have the fight for another 10 years. But maybe I wont as he will have been exposed to driver and car behaviours well before permit/license time.

[hks_kansei]

One of the best responses from a parental view. I have dealings with parents while training. And if all had the same view as you Dale. All kids would pass their tests first go, and all kids could drive confidently.

Do many people actually fail the tests? (granted, I have no idea what QLD testing is like, but I assume the states are all fairly similar)

I've never met anybody who's managed to fail a driving test. I suspect Stevie Wonder could pass them even with Ray Charles as the supervising driver.

[mattyredlocks]

@hks_kansei, in Queensland, it's around a 65-70% pass rate at test centres, 98ish% pass rate in regional areas where tests are done at local police stations.

Not sure what the rate of first attempt failures are (those numbers are just overall test pass rates), but plenty of people fail first time.

[mattyredlocks]

Stats at 2009: http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/~/media/about ... _part2.pdf

[Red Dragon]

It looks as though things haven't changed much in 2009 from when i went for mine in 1964
Metro & larger provincial areas had higher fail rate.
Failed mine first go for not driving in the far left lane on a three lane major road, when i went for a retest told the copper why i failed he said the other copper must have been in a shitty mood that day, he told me to drive him around the block that was it.

[hks_kansei]

Got mine in 2005 (P plates anyway)

Test consisted of a 5min computer "hazard test" which was just a matter of "click mouse when you would drive off from this stop sign" note: the footage was locked straigth ahead, so completely pointless since in real life you look to see if it's clear..

the driving component was a matter of pointing out the lights and indicators to the instructor, exit the driveway and turn left.
Reverse park (no car behind, had to keep within 4 metres of the car in front.... yes, you had up to 4 metres to play with to park)
continue down road, turn left
continue down road, turn left
angle park, exit angle park, continue down road, turn left.
Turn left once more and you're back in the Vicroads carpark.


Apparently being adept in turning left, and parking within oddly large areas was enough to be considered safe on the road.

[Red Dragon]

A lot easier than when i got mine, we had to be able to verbally give the answer to questions asked by the Police tester almost word for word as in the book.
Reverse parking in front of the Moonee Ponds Police station was a horror with very high and rough bluestone gutters, with about a metre front and back to work with.
But it was easy in a VW.

[taminga16]

Perhaps getting a car licence needs to be a little more like a motorcycle licence? where you need to book in and do a half day course which covers ALL the basics, rather than a 10 minute drive around the block? (Nic).
I got my motorcycle licence about twenty years ago, an entire day for the initial permit and then another day (three months later) for a licence. obtaining a drivers licence in 1973 was interesting, the boys in our group all failed the first time around but the girls never had any problems at all. I think that skirt length had a bit to do with it.
Greg.

[Mr Morlock]

Not sure where the conversation is going with motorcycles. I do agree that a stringent test is required but not sure that you can draw parrallels with cars. With cars you log hours with someone sitting next to a driver but I don't think the same applies with a motorcycle. When I got a motorcycle licence you got an L plate by answering the road rules which as a student in year 12 that was was easyfor me. The next thing was getting experience which was nothing like puttering around a paddock. It was probably safer in the old days ( cannot quote facts) because bikes had about the same safety features when you fell of or hit something as today though they stop and handle a bit better.

you can bet that the motorcycle test is trying to optimise a safer outcome for a smaller group whereas cars are far less of a risk. The sheer cost of testing all drivers to a long form test whilst quite feasible would attract a very high cost. We can have a better everything if the community wants to pay and of course that's not how it works.

[project.r.racing]

Once again Mr.M you have completely missed the points of discussion.

[StuwieP]

I seriously doubt old motorbikes were in any way comparably safer compared to contemporary cars... [edit:] Morlock, maybe the cost of testing would be offset by a hopefully reduced cost of looking after people who would but for the testing have suffered serious, crippling or debilitating injuries? [/edit].

But learning the road rules as a 14 year old on a bicycle certainly instilled a respect for the road, a defensive (occasionally overly so) attitude and a grasp of reality for me. I'm not going to say I'm a great driver. Heck, I'll even deny it, but I do think I came to driving better prepared than many other teenagers.

For parents out there. Beating your kids over the head with a book probably won't help. Remember your own youth?

My advice, if you'll consider listening to someone who was only until recently one of those very teenagers, is to encourage respect for cars and the road over learning the A-Z of the road rules. It's the path my parents took and so far I haven't gone around running over elderly people/kids/puppies and kittens or whatever else ACA and the Government seem to think young people who like cars do for fun on the weekends. I also haven't removed any road furniture or shrubbery. So far, going well.

Racing bikes (the pedal-powered ones) teaches some pretty good lessons that translate nicely to the road: hold your line, be predictable, be aware of the riders around you. It also makes you fit. Double win.

Good luck.

[Mr Morlock]

Prr I don't think I missed anything. The advantage a few of us have is to have experienced the regime on the roads the way it really was. I fully support higher standards of testing for motorcycles because they are far more challenged as far as road safety is concerned by any measure. I also don't think it matters how people learn the road rules as long it is sufficient to drive without endangering others - road rules are there to make the experience more predictable. I also think the points I raised are about right. We basically get a testing regime that is fit for purpose and affordable. It would be a stretch to think that any Govt is going to plough more money into licence testing with the competing interests and unwillingness of an electorate to pay more tax.

[KevGoat]

Morlock does have a point. It would be interesting to watch the reaction here if Govt was to try to bring in similar requirements for obtaining a license as say, Germany. From what I've been told in the past by people from there and surrounding countries, who are astounded how bad our driving habits are here, it costs several thousand dollars and requires around 35-45 hours of professional only tuition, several verbal/written tests including mechanical knowledge as well as many other requirements.

Of course, our Govt's PR campaign could always include all the autobahns they'd build for us ...

[project.r.racing]

Prr I don't think I missed anything. The advantage a few of us have is to have experienced the regime on the roads the way it really was. I fully support higher standards of testing for motorcycles because they are far more challenged as far as road safety is concerned by any measure. I also don't think it matters how people learn the road rules as long it is sufficient to drive without endangering others - road rules are there to make the experience more predictable. I also think the points I raised are about right. We basically get a testing regime that is fit for purpose and affordable. It would be a stretch to think that any Govt is going to plough more money into licence testing with the competing interests and unwillingness of an electorate to pay more tax.

I agree with what you have said mostly.

But I dissagree with the highlighted bit.

The point which you missed again is that they make motorcyclists do crazy tests so they can protect themselves from other road users as they are more vulnerable categary. But shouldn't all road users do crazy tests so they can protect themselves from other road users? Or prevent themselves from doing something they shouldn't?

I don't see the point in saying, lets make your license more radical to get so you can protect yourself from car users. As you will die in a accident with a car. But then when car users go and get a license, you just need to learn how to hill start and reverse park. And other road users are afterthoughts.