Youth & drivrers licences

[StanTheMan]

Victoria’s Transport Accident Commission (TAC) has launched a new road safety campaign, aimed at motorists engaging in poor driving behavior in front of their children.



So My son turns 16. I sit in Patchy with him to teach him about the clutch. You know, how to balance it. get used to it. start the 3 point turns in our front yard I ask him.
*leghorn foghorn voice*
Now pay attention to me boy. I say" what about sitting for this test & reading this hand book son? I say

Son:
Huh? what book?. there is no book
me:
The handbook I say the handbook. Look at me when I'm talking to you.
The handbook I say The handbook that you're supposed to read.
Son
"dad, there is no handbook."
Me.
You gotta be kidding me son I say.
Son
None of my friends have read it.
Me
Pay attention to me when I'm talking to you boy. Your friends, I say , your friends are talking out of their asses.

so after an hr of mucking around i the front yard talking to him about how the clutch , gearbox accelerator & handbrake we walk back & first thing I do is google on what is required to get L plated & P1 &P2 licensees.
and guess what. low & behold there is the handbook for downloading.
He looks at it. I gotta read all that? its 240 pages dad?

nothing further gets mentioned except that he took one of those practice test online. Only got 1 wrong.

so that night were at a friends place with kids the same age.
the question comes up about the handbook.

the other teenagers go
nah don't bother reading the book just take the trail tests until you get none wrong & then go for the real one.


awkward silence.........

[hks_kansei]

Unfortunately they're right.

The trial tests (when I got my licence anyway so long ago) often recycle questions from the actual test. It's pretty pathetic.

Even worse is that I recall that about 80% of the questions were related to parking in some way, and the remaining 20% to do with driving.

Licences are pretty much a parking test where you just happen to need to drive between each parking test.




Combine sh*t testing with bad driving attitudes (to quote my sister "I'm not a very good driver, so the other cars should work around that") and you end up with the roads full of morons

[StanTheMan]

I got my L's in 1983 yes different time. Different rules too. But we knew the handbook back to front.
indeed we had it easier in a lot of other ways too compared to today
3 months of L plates
12 months of P Plates
then we had our full licence.

standard procedure in the day was you had to sit for the actual drivers test a number of times. on a very rare occasion would anybody at 17 years of age get passed on the first go. LOL.


but truthfully, I'm considering making him read that book just out of spite. But thats not going to make him a better driver, having read the book.

I feel Australian in general are very bad drivers. That's not to say we should compare ourselves to some other Asian countries or say Russia. But after experiencing how europeans drive we are way behind the mark. Also the philosophy they use over in Europe where for example all trucks stop driving on Sundays on all the freeways. I thought it was brilliant.

yea sure extreme actions by parents influence youngsters. But I recon they are largely missing the point.

[hks_kansei]

yea sure extreme actions by parents influence youngsters. But I recon they are largely missing the point.

Very much so.

I got my Ls in 2003 it would have been, and for me it was 24 months on L, then another 36 months on P plates (from memory)
I think the minimum was 12 months on L plates (you could get them at 16 but couldnt get a licence until 18)

I'd recommend making him read the book, assuming it's similar to the book I had when I got my licence it's not a long read anyway. Most of it was diagrams anyway with very little text. And it was a good help for the basic road rules/laws. (even simple stuff like not nailing the throttle flat for amber lights...... you'd be shocked how many people at work think that's what you're supposed to do...)

[speed]

Then there is the bad advice from various driving instructors. Without a decent driver to learn from, what chance do they have...

[MattR]

An interesting topic, and I get to see a lot of kids who have just got their licences with my part time beer money gig doing defensive and advanced driver training.

Most professional driving instructors are great at teaching how to operate a car and pass the test, but then that is the scope of the work for them. They cost money and no one wants to pay, so they do what they can in the time allocated and have to miss some details, through no fault of their own.

Most people are taught to drive by their parents, who were taught by their parents and so on, so this is where the problem lies as most of us believe we are better than average drivers, yet we all have bad habits and foibles behind the wheel.

The huge majority of people are not even taught how to sit in a car properly or set up mirrors, because there is no one to teach the teachers how to do it. It is scary when doing a sit and steer for a corporate day with experienced drivers how many comment that they didn't know how to sit in a car properly or where to put their hands and why on the wheel. The kids you can almost forgive not knowing, but if they have had professional instruction, they should have been taught how to and the reasoning why.

[kalt]

Combine sh*t testing with bad driving attitudes (to quote my sister "I'm not a very good driver, so the other cars should work around that") and you end up with the roads full of morons

And sh*t instructors too. Coincidentally, I encountered one certified RACV instructor last night accompanying a Learner on a quiet residential street. It was dark and the rain stopped 10 minutes at least. The road, was wet.

I see their car with headlights and foglights ON in front of me, appearing to be moving, signalling LEFT into the street I want to turn into. I signal too, and wait for that vehicle and give way. It approached incredibly slowly, I thought about turning my engine off to save on petrol, it was that slooow.

Approximately 10 seconds later, in what felt like eternity, the Learner driver proceeds to make the turn, at around 4kmh into the street, braking intermittently mid corner for good measure.

WOWsers

I can't believe the instructor allowed the use of foglights in what in my opinion was reasonably average night conditions. There was no torrential rain, there was no fog or smog that could affect vision. The learner may have been overly cautious, at that speed I suggest they stop the car and leg it.

The instructor should be penalised 1 demerit point and have $148 fine that is standard for Victoria. Whilst that learner is making bank for one instructor, do we really want to share our roads with such a tentative driver?

That Learner will probably habitualise incorrect use of foglights when they drive from now on too Thanks RACV (not really)

[mattyredlocks]

As someone who got his licence at 22 (instead of at 17 as did most of my friends), and has six months left on his green P's (you have red for one year, green for two in Queensland - yes, I'm not yet 25 for those counting at home), I feel like I'm an exceptional case, but I'll add my two cents.

It's very easy to go on about "how bad kids are these days", whether you got your licence in 2005, 1995 or 1975. It is quickly forgotten just how bad your first three, six or twelve months of driving might have been. Some drivers are perpetually terrible, some take longer than others to get the hang of things - but everyone started at terrible.

Saying that it's too easy to get a licence these days is also too easy. Yes, there is a massive emphasis on parking, roundabouts and using reverse - but none on merging or driving at speed, and yes, some kids learn to pass the test and nothing more, but saying it's easier than it used to be is a stretch. Ultimately it comes down to parents teaching the right thing, and doing the right thing. No handbook can teach you how to actually drive, you have to go out and do it - hopefully with good advice in your ear.

I got my licence in 2012 first go - I also paid for a ton of lessons, and drove with my parents a ton of times before. My little brother did the same, opted for an auto only licence, also passed first go. When he went to do his manual licence six months later - failed. Wasn't ready, didn't get it.

Not like our father, who got it back in the 70's by driving around the block (badly), and parking at the test centre. Our mother? Failed first time, got it two weeks later, had no idea how to drive when she bought her first car a few months later.

My point is, young drivers are probably better informed than they ever were - there's just lots more of them, because sh*t, there's more people in 2015 than 1985 and those bloody "P" plates are easy to spot.

It's easy to forget what it was really like "back in the day", and how much learning has always been done *after* you lass your test.

[Old Dude]

Sometimes parents need to be parents,
I told my two, I don't care if you've done 100 hours or 1000hours, your not going for your licence until you can drive safely and well!. I also told them it would kill me if something happened to them because they couldn't drive properly
Both got their licences first time and drive very well, and more importantly defensively, although like all kids they do sometimes get over confident and drive a bit quick. The old man brings them down a notch or two

I also Like Stan had to know every question and answer in the book, none of this multiple choice stuff. Make him read the book Stan I made mine read the book and at least then they know the rules, rather than how to pass the test.

At the end of the day its their lives were talking about, and there are enough idiots on the road that don't know the rules that are intent on harming the unprepared.

Cheers
Dale

[Mr Morlock]

Read mattys post.. Spot on an excellent observation. The requirements for getting a licence today is far better than it ever was. the old guys remember the days where everything was slack and we just accepted high road tolls and drink driving as a sport. As an older driver I don't think young drivers are worse than previous generations and most are far more responsible about not driving and drinking.
The road rule questions is easy to fix just set a very high pass score or retest until the Q&A is passed. It does not in itself make a good driver but it certainly helps in regulating traffic behaviour.

[ManiacLachy]

There is a wide mix of driving ability, and well like to over estimate our abilities (except me - I'm perfect and always right).

Keep in mind there are also foreginers who are moving into the country who (I think) can just transfer their license over, but really don't understand the rules of our roads. Add them to the mix of young driver's with many distractions (phones, friends, radio, nav) without much experience, older drivers who haven't kept up with changing road rules, and folks in the middle like me who are really no better than anyone else; and you have quite the melting pot!

I think a simple education program, ad spots on TV, radio, billboards, internet and newspapers, could help make people aware of rules and behaviours. Things like keeping left on the freeway unless activley overtaking, moving to the side to make way for emergency vehicles, merging behaviour, roundabout rules, leaving a gap to the vehicle in front, etc, etc. Short spots that just remind everyone of how things are done. Emphasis on education, not scare tactics.

It wouldn't raise any revenue, but I think it would help!

[project.r.racing]

An interesting topic, and I get to see a lot of kids who have just got their licences with my part time beer money gig doing defensive and advanced driver training.

Most professional driving instructors are great at teaching how to operate a car and pass the test, but then that is the scope of the work for them. They cost money and no one wants to pay, so they do what they can in the time allocated and have to miss some details, through no fault of their own.

Most people are taught to drive by their parents, who were taught by their parents and so on, so this is where the problem lies as most of us believe we are better than average drivers, yet we all have bad habits and foibles behind the wheel.

The huge majority of people are not even taught how to sit in a car properly or set up mirrors, because there is no one to teach the teachers how to do it. It is scary when doing a sit and steer for a corporate day with experienced drivers how many comment that they didn't know how to sit in a car properly or where to put their hands and why on the wheel. The kids you can almost forgive not knowing, but if they have had professional instruction, they should have been taught how to and the reasoning why.

Holy shite! It is like you are reading my mind. When I was casual up at Gympie Skidpan/Driver Ed - I found the same thing. Amazing how many people don't even sit correctly and are lazy with their hands on the wheel.

[hks_kansei]

Read mattys post.. Spot on an excellent observation. The requirements for getting a licence today is far better than it ever was.

I certainly agree with that, but my point is that while it's much better now, it's still not good enough.


Perhaps getting a car licence needs to be a little more like a motorcycle licence? where you need to book in and do a half day course which covers ALL the basics, rather than a 10minute drive around the block?

[project.r.racing]

I think a simple education program, ad spots on TV, radio, billboards, internet and newspapers, could help make people aware of rules and behaviours. Things like keeping left on the freeway unless activley overtaking, moving to the side to make way for emergency vehicles, merging behaviour, roundabout rules, leaving a gap to the vehicle in front, etc, etc. Short spots that just remind everyone of how things are done. Emphasis on education, not scare tactics.

It wouldn't raise any revenue, but I think it would help!

Unfortunately people will switch off. If they don't care, they wont listen or watch. Their first thought will be, "I'm a good driver, it isn't aimed at me."

Fines they have to listen to. But to be honest the cops do no chase poor driving behaviours. Only speeders.

If you want people to do those things correctly and learn new rules when they come into play, either actively educate them, fining them, re/testing them. Education costs the government. Fining drivers makes money. Testing and/or retesting drivers is a political nightmare.

Jeez we cant even get the 70+yos to do 5 year retests to keep the other road users safe. It is proven they are just as deadly as the 18-25 age bracket, but govs wont do a thing.

But back to fining them. I'm doubtful it would work for 2 reasons. Fining people for speeding hasn't stopped speeders. And secondly, Police are rarely policing bad driver behaviours and make a decent impact on total driving habits as a whole.

So Re/testing is the only real way to go to make wholesale changes to driving behaviours. Fail a test and loose your license. You stand up and start listening. But that is why it will never happen. As much as the majority think they are above average drivers. They still fear loosing their licenses. So the public will never allow the best tool for improvement to be implemented.

[project.r.racing]

Perhaps getting a car licence needs to be a little more like a motorcycle licence? where you need to book in and do a half day course which covers ALL the basics, rather than a 10minute drive around the block?

Ding ding ding! Agreed. A mate just did his bike license. 4 hours of stuff I would've normally taught at a defensive driver course.

Funny how the motorcyclists have the equivalent of a defensive driver course added to their license requirements. But car drivers have to do very little to get a license.