Do MX-5 drivers ever check the market when selling?

llmoose · Postby **llmoose** » Fri Feb 27, 2015 9:01 pm

People are unintelligent and quite often they either think buyers will just offer them $5k below asking price (as is standard procedure for ~20% of buyers regardless of the advertised price) or simply lack the common sense to check the market and price competitively.

Magpie · Postby **Magpie** » Fri Feb 27, 2015 9:38 pm

It is very dangerous to assume that people are unintelligent. I'm know to use body language as a tool when in difficult negotiations, it can give you the edge. Sometimes people want you to think that they are unintelligent to gain an advantage. You need to understand why people make the decisions they do, as I said before it all has to do with reference points.

llmoose · Postby **llmoose** » Fri Feb 27, 2015 9:52 pm

Irrespective of the reasoning, listing a car far above market value with no justification is an unintelligent move that will only cost you time and money. In my opinion feigning to be unintelligent is a very risky game and normally simply acceptance that a person lacks the intelligence to control a situation properly.

The best salespeople are not the unintelligent or those who feign ignorance/poor intelligence. The best salespeople (both professional and private sellers) are those who have the intelligence to know their market and are able to cater to the buyer of their product. Advertising at an unrealistic price shows a lack of respect for the buyer and when someone genuinely believes that price it makes them appear unintelligent.

I phrased my last post incorrectly. All people are have certain areas in which they lack intelligence. For a LOT of people, selling falls under this banner. The intelligent people recognise this fault and simply trade their car in or advertise it aggressively. The unintelligent simply advertise their car $5k above market value "just in case someone really wants it!" and then spend three months slowly reducing the price. By the time the price is at market value, all the genuine buyers have seen the car online for three months and either don't check it again or assume there is something wrong with it!

That's my rant anyhow...

Magpie · Postby **Magpie** » Fri Feb 27, 2015 10:41 pm

No problems. Physiology and economics have more in common than some people think.

Mr Morlock · Postby **Mr Morlock** » Fri Feb 27, 2015 10:43 pm

If we take a look through the selling ads for both cars and parts on the Forum there are many that put me off.The parts seem to sell but for me many seem overpriced. In the old days you were lucky to get 50% of the original value. I never get the claptrap about the "beloved car " and a whole lot of talk about things not vital to the sale or those that supply no rwc's or blather on about no tyre kickers or time wasters as thought the seller was doing them all a favour. Or for that matter the responders who would have bought it but its in another State or some lame comment or those that say a car is cheap and extol others to buy it. We are told not to be critical of sellers but its ok for others to add comments to crank up the ante for the seller.

Not sure if its got much to do with intelligence- you don't have to be a Rhodes scholar to be a good salesperson but you probably need a bit of emotional intelligence and be prepared to put yourself out for a bit of service. A mate recently told me that he bought a car without actually seeing it as he was confident that it was worth the money- he trusted the seller. The seller got some work done on the car without being asked and even bought the buyer a good bottle of wine to go with the classic. They are now good mates even though they live in different States.

I know one guy on the Forum who has had a number of cracks at selling his car and he is smart and a good bloke but the car was always overpriced and he still has it. Most know what a car is worth - its not all that hard to work it out -at least for bread and butter vehicles - for historic racing cars or rare cars it may be a little more difficult and then a seller puts a price on that they think its worth. It does look a bit silly reading the sell ads with the guy who says $xxxxx firm and then next week it goes lower- better to leave out the firm bit altogether. Price it about right and anyone has a chance and overpriced many are just put off even making an offer.

Anyway its true if we don't like the price or don't like the spiel etc we can just say nothing and move on.

chrisearl88 · Postby **chrisearl88** » Fri Feb 27, 2015 11:45 pm

Just tell em they're dreaming!

Crapweasel · Postby **Crapweasel** » Sat Feb 28, 2015 12:20 am

Mr Morlock wrote:
Anyway its true if we don't like the price or don't like the spiel etc we can just say nothing and move on.

Mr Morlock, I agree with your entire post and polite sentiment expressed at the end. Very well put.

Sellers price vs your price is nothing to get offended about, you have the price you're willing to pay, and the seller has the price they want.
When those two values line up, you make a purchase.
Simples!

Craig · Postby **Craig** » Sat Feb 28, 2015 7:31 am

chrisearl88 wrote:Just tell em they're dreaming!

speed · Postby **speed** » Sat Feb 28, 2015 8:49 am

Mr Morlock wrote:If we take a look through the selling ads for both cars and parts on the Forum there are many that put me off.The parts seem to sell but for me many seem overpriced. In the old days you were lucky to get 50% of the original value. I never get the claptrap about the "beloved car " and a whole lot of talk about things not vital to the sale or those that supply no rwc's or blather on about no tyre kickers or time wasters as thought the seller was doing them all a favour. Or for that matter the responders who would have bought it but its in another State or some lame comment or those that say a car is cheap and extol others to buy it. We are told not to be critical of sellers but its ok for others to add comments to crank up the ante for the seller.

Not sure if its got much to do with intelligence- you don't have to be a Rhodes scholar to be a good salesperson but you probably need a bit of emotional intelligence and be prepared to put yourself out for a bit of service. A mate recently told me that he bought a car without actually seeing it as he was confident that it was worth the money- he trusted the seller. The seller got some work done on the car without being asked and even bought the buyer a good bottle of wine to go with the classic. They are now good mates even though they live in different States.

I know one guy on the Forum who has had a number of cracks at selling his car and he is smart and a good bloke but the car was always overpriced and he still has it. Most know what a car is worth - its not all that hard to work it out -at least for bread and butter vehicles - for historic racing cars or rare cars it may be a little more difficult and then a seller puts a price on that they think its worth. It does look a bit silly reading the sell ads with the guy who says $xxxxx firm and then next week it goes lower- better to leave out the firm bit altogether. Price it about right and anyone has a chance and overpriced many are just put off even making an offer.

Anyway its true if we don't like the price or don't like the spiel etc we can just say nothing and move on.

I also agree with everything in the above quote.
Also remember when used parts were up to 50% of new price. With all the stat write offs, parts prices should be cheaper IMO.

Best advice IS to tell em they're dreaming and move on.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The American · Postby **The American** » Sat Feb 28, 2015 9:32 am

A high price can ultimately hurt the chances of a good price, or any price. Once the market of potential buyers has seen the car for sale and unsold for a period of time, it reinforces assumptions people might make: it's too expensive, or there is something wrong with it.

Items that are 'luxury' (who actually needs an Mx5?) are also subject to volatility.

I bought my neat 'n' tidy 2003 NB with 70,000km for about an average (or a bit below) price for the year and km. You could argue I paid nothing for the built engine, engineered turbo conversion, lsd etc. (if you've followed my garage thread, you'll know it has cost me a bit since!).

Cost is a fairly definite concept, but value is in the eye of the beholder. I won't get my money back on my Mx5, so hope to get lots of value out of it!

The high prices simply reflect the value the individual sees, without a market lense. If they can find a buyer who sees it too, then good on them!

Rob · Postby **Rob** » Sat Feb 28, 2015 10:39 am

Also, this isn't quite the same as the topic I raised in the OP, but we're seeing the last gasp of the new-ish NCs commanding a ridiculous premium at present, too.

By which I mean, there are 2013 NCs with 10,000-20,000 on the clock for low 40s.

Do potential buyers realise they can have the new model, with this years date, and no km on the clock, and a full warranty, for less money, if they wait a little longer?

I think Mazda dealers, in particular (as well as some private sellers), are hoping they don't realise that and are having one last red hot go at selling at a price designed for fools only.

davekmoore · Postby **davekmoore** » Sun Mar 01, 2015 8:16 am

Also factor in the difference between wholesale and retail. On average a car which sells at $4990 needs to cost no more than $2000 before reconditioning, roadworthy, warranty, overheads etc for a dealer to make a true profit.

Then a private seller thinks he can get the same retail price or more because we all think our cars are special. And we're naturally greedy to get the best price. Of course it's all made more confusing by the higher prices asked and got for a few rare genuinely properly developed track weapons.

cookie · Postby **cookie** » Sun Mar 01, 2015 11:34 am

It'll be interesting when it comes time me to sell up, to help pay for a house in the next 18 mths.

I bought a poorly advertised, on auction mx5 with no roady off eBay after inspection for a bargain. Picked it up, fixed a few bits and pieces, tidied it up. Completely stock, 200K, reco motor/ new paint in almost perfect condition. I stuck to a (high) price of $6500. I knew it was a tidy car and after a month it sold. I just had to get someone to test drive it, and be willing to take a deposit and wait a month for it to be paid for. I only sold it because I had time to wait. Some people want to sell it asap that weekend (eg seller on eBay).

The car has since given no troubles and he's happy, so I'm happy.

Now dwhat happens with my Malibu. Yes it's limited, has many "good" mods (mca, t2, swaybars, bracing, roll bar, nbb brakes, quality turbo setup, seats plus many more cheaper mods. Insured currently for 11K. no way will someone pay that. You will all sit and laugh at me! It'd sell for 8 maybe (close to what I paid originally) but doubtful any higher, because you can buy an se for that money.

MrBrad · Postby **MrBrad** » Wed Mar 11, 2015 1:32 am

I'm going to apologise before I say anything because if you do that you can say what ever you want.... Like you know..... Ricky bobby......

But seriously how do people think a 11 year old or thereabouts car be worth nearly $20,000! And with a straight face.. I wouldn't mind so much if I could fast forward 4 months to the point where people realise what the market is actually at and advertise accordingly.

As much as private sellers bump their cars up it's really the dealers that come up with magical numbers that do the damage, just massively unrealistic for what the car is then they will tell you it's rare and so special that the body was built using crushed unicorn horns....

The only people that look for the SE are PEOPLE that know what they are so chances of fooling them into thinking its worth 20k are so remote that they would have had to have an aneurysm to pay that kind of money for one..

Again sorry for the rant but trying to find one of these is so incredibly frustrating I'm losing my mind!!!!

davekmoore · Postby **davekmoore** » Wed Mar 11, 2015 7:30 am

MrBrad wrote:I'm going to apologise before I say anything because if you do that you can say what ever you want.... Like you know..... Ricky bobby......
But seriously how do people think a 11 year old or thereabouts car be worth nearly $20,000! And with a straight face.. I wouldn't mind so much if I could fast forward 4 months to the point where people realise what the market is actually at and advertise accordingly.
As much as private sellers bump their cars up it's really the dealers that come up with magical numbers that do the damage, just massively unrealistic for what the car is then they will tell you it's rare and so special that the body was built using crushed unicorn horns....
The only people that look for the SE are PEOPLE that know what they are so chances of fooling them into thinking its worth 20k are so remote that they would have had to have an aneurysm to pay that kind of money for one..
Again sorry for the rant but trying to find one of these is so incredibly frustrating I'm losing my mind!!!!

True, there are some crazy prices being asked out there, especially by private sellers. How about you buy a late NB8B? Gives you more choice of colour and, with a few exceptions, more normal pricing. Add a properturbo and it'll drive 100% better than any SE. Customise the rest of the car to suit you and still save $$$$ compared to what you'd want to do to an SE bought for a higher price. Just my 2 cents worth based on my experience.