CAMS 2F Class

[madjak]

I'm looking to compete in the Australian Hill Climb Championships in Nov in CAMS class 2F. I've read a few threads and gone through the CAMS manual on the class but I have a few queries.

There aren't any cars that I know of over here so I figure I'd ask here to people that run in the series. To be clear, I want to conform to the rules not stretch them! I just don't want to rock up on the day and not be allowed to run because I don't have a sticker in the right spot!

ENGINE:
Most 2F cars I've seen don't have stock air intakes. The regs say the Air cleaner and housings are free. Does this mean I can change up to the throttle body? I'm currently running a NA8 intake but it's had ports sealed up and there is no IAC on the throttle body. I also run a MX5mania CAI from the firewall which I assume is ok given it's the air cleaner component.

I'm running non stock engine mounts... I take it they have to be reverted back to Mazda ones.

BODYWORK:
Do you have to run the soft-top?
I have a CF hardtop which I might have to remove as it would need to be an OEM one.
Frame rail braces look like they aren't allowed so I assume they have to be removed.

Any other little gotchas I need to look out for?

[Magpie]

The way to read the rules is "if it is not specifically mentioned then the answer is no". Therefore the throttle body cannot be changed as it is not mentioned.

Another way is to get in contact with the person who will be inspecting your car and discuss with the person what is in and what is not.

http://docs.cams.com.au/CAMS%20Forms/Logbooks/Pre%20Log%20Book%20Inspection%20List_Master.pdf

[madjak]

The way to read the rules is "if it is not specifically mentioned then the answer is no". Therefore the throttle body cannot be changed as it is not mentioned.

You can take that to mean you can't remove a single bolt factory bolt, clip, etc unless it's allowed for in the rules. As with all these things there is an acceptable grey area where items are modified/removed because it's a race car and is surplus to the needs that doesn't necessarily impact on performance. If there were other MX5s in the class locally I could go see and discuss what was kept and removed it would make setting up a car in class much easier but unfortunately there aren't any over here.

I'll have a chat to the scrutineer next time I see one to ask how it will work... as 80% of the local entrants won't have run in a CAMS race class.

My car runs a stock intake manifold and TB but there are several hoses and other bits that aren't present because the engine has a coolant re-route. Nearly every car I've seen for sale in the 2F class doesn't run these items but they aren't listed in the rules as removable. You can argue that the carbon filter is part of the fueling system and can be removed which I suppose is the case but if you read the fueling section it's more intended for changing plumbing, pumps, filters etc.

My bonnet has aerocatch fittings so I have removed my stock latch. I assume this is fine but really the rules don't say it can be removed, it just says the bonnet must be fitted with at least two points.

edit: actually it does say the original bonnet fasteners can be removed. Cool.

I didn't want this thread to go down the path of previous class threads, but it would be nice to see what other class 2F cars are running.

[greenMachine]

The way to read the rules is "if it is not specifically mentioned then the answer is no". Therefore the throttle body cannot be changed as it is not mentioned.

You can take that to mean you can't remove a single bolt factory bolt, clip, etc unless it's allowed for in the rules. As with all these things there is an acceptable grey area where items are modified/removed because it's a race car and is surplus to the needs that doesn't necessarily impact on performance. .

What part of 'if it isn't allowed, then it is not allowed' don't you understand? The rules are the rules.

If you do things the rules don't allow, certain things follow: You are cheating; the scrutes may pick you up, and make you restore the mods; you may be thrown out of the competition; you may be successful, and THEN get thrown out of the competition; you may be protested by other competitors, and get thrown out; none of these may happen, and you have to deal with the fact that your results were achieved in an illegal car.

If there were other MX5s in the class locally I could go see and discuss what was kept and removed it would make setting up a car in class much easier but unfortunately there aren't any over here.

I'll have a chat to the scrutineer next time I see one to ask how it will work... as 80% of the local entrants won't have run in a CAMS race class..

That is a good idea, maybe - but it might be the blind leading the blind. You really need to talk to the chief scrute for the event - he will be named in the sup regs, which will not be out yet if it is in November. This is a national level event I assume, so the amount of slack that you will be allowed may be limited. If you are running last in your class, you might get away with more, and the other competitors may not be concerned - but go faster than a legal 2F car ...

If there are cars there (where, I wonder?) that aren't logbooked 2F but want to run 2F (or any class for that matter), maybe someone needs to run some workshops to get potential entrants up to speed. Talk to your local CAMS office. You may also be able to find out in advance who will/might be be the chief scrute by contacting the chief scrute for the first round of a state series. Does your state run a series/event - this would also be a starting point for inquiries. What club is running the event, they have a vested interest in drumming up as many entries as they can.

You might want to check (if your car is not logbooked) whether logbooks will be mandatory - they are/were for the Supersprint nationals, I seem to remember.

FWIW, I happen to have this, from an old set of 2F regs (bound to be different now, but you get the picture):

2.6 Modifications: Any aspect relating to the construction, modification and/or preparation of the vehicle, which
is not specifically authorised in the present regulations, is forbidden. The only work which may be otherwise
performed on the car is that necessary for normal servicing or the replacement of parts damaged by wear
or accident, or that required under Schedules A, B and C (refer “General Requirements for Cars and Drivers”).
Unless otherwise specified, a part replaced through damage or wear must only be replaced by an original part
identical to the previously undamaged one.

PS I would not expect too many competitors to go public on where/how they are bending/breaking regs ...

[madjak]

The event is still over 2/3rds of a year away and I'm sure there will be more information later this year. It will be run by the WASCC at Jack's Hill near Barbagallo Raceway in Perth. It will be run as part of the CAMS Speed Series which I'm currently competing. I'm entered in a production sports class which is basically road registered, under 2000cc sports cars. (typically up against Hondas, Lotuses, GT86).

Given this is the first time this event has been run in WA, there will be a lot of cars entering that don't compete in racing / sprints that use the CAMS classes. The current class rules for my class are very roughly based on the CAMS 2F class but are much more flexible, basically the cars have to be a road registered vehicle, without major modifications. The current scrutineering is more based on safety aspects rather than class.

This will have to change for a national event, so I'm trying to figure out my plan on moving my car to the 2F rules which it already mostly complies. I have already listed the things I think I need to change. It's easy to say the rules are the rules, but there is interpretation to all of it which is why I'm here asking as I'm not familiar with how critical the scrutineering will be at a national event. Its not my intention to cheat and if I was I wouldn't be posting on a public forum would I?

Also I'd like to point out that this is a once off event for this car, so whatever mods I make to run the event I'll probably reverse immediately after. This means if it's all too hard I'll just run in a different class which would be a shame given I think the MX5s are probably very competitive in class 2F and I'd have a good chance of winning.

Is anyone planning on making the trip over to WA this year? Paul Bower won the class last year.

[Magpie]

I have a person at work that compete in Targa rallies in WA he may have some info. When he gets back to site I will ask.

[madjak]

Targa West doesn't use the CAMS classes i don't think. They are more open categories based on vehicle age with sub categories based on engine capacity.

Most motorsport events in WA don't use the CAMS classes... I think only the circuit racing uses them and there aren't many 2F cars at all.

[evil_weevil]

2F is for prod sports cars for racing, not the speed events such as hill climbs and supersprints

My car is 2B in supersprints/hillclimbs
it was built to 2F prod sport spec

[madjak]

Hmm I don't think I follow what you mean. Results from last years Australian Hill Climb Champs show both 2F and 2B classes with an MX5 winning class 2F. Maybe the 2F class is only run for race and national events?

[Trackphotos]

It depends on who's running the event, or even which track/how many entrants they got. Local hillclimb rounds at Mt Cotton don't run 2B/2F as such, they run Prod Sports cars 0-1600cc, 1601-2400cc etc. For national events like the AHC, if they get enough entrants in each division to justify it, they will run more classes. Even Prod Sports isn't at every Mt Cotton round, usually they run under the broader banner of Marque Sports.

[MattR]

If the Hillclimb is for the National championships then they will be running a class for ProdSports 2F, then it will be run to the 2F rules as per the CAMS manual. local events with smaller fields will and can amalgamate classes to suit, that will generally mean that the more restrictive class will be amalgamated into a less restrictive class, or similar classes combined. Classes for Improved Production Touring Cars, 3J from memory, usually result in a bun fight as competitors must use a specified tyre to be 100% legal as per the CAMS manual, but turn up running other types of tyres no problems for lesser stature events.

For the latest copy of the rules go to the cams website, search for the cams manual of motorsport and go to the racing section, and then to 2F, download a copy for your reference. This becomes your bible of what you can and can't do.

With the event you are running being the National Championships, get onto to the organisers to see if there are any special requirements. You may need to get your car log booked, and as well as the requirements of the category, you will also have to comply with various schedules within the cams manual, off the top of my head, general requirements for automobiles, markings on automobiles, apparel, tyres and so on.

The manual will also cover the requirements for speed events of which hillclimbing is classified as.

If you have any questions, talk to your state CAMS office, contrary to popular belief, they will be quite helpful in telling you what you need to know. Also talk to the nominated secretary of the event and or the clerk of course, they are there to help the competitors as well as run the event

[madjak]

Thanks for all the info guys. Its a bit far off from the event yet but I have already asked the questions to the organiser of the Speed Series regarding class structure and scrutineering requirements for the national event. I suspect even they don't know whats happening yet. I'm sure a lot of the local entries will be in the same position as me.

I have the CAMS Schedule J (roll cages), generic regs and 2F class rules and I've read through them now a couple of times. I'm looking at getting a full cage built over the coming months as well as fit a few items like a kill switch, remove my steering lock etc.. which I was going to be doing anyway.

The remainder of the items that I need to address to fit into 2F can be done later in the year and closer to the event when I know how it will run. Most of the changes are just small parts I have to reinstall onto my car or pull off which would really only take me a day or so anyway.

[greenMachine]

Glad to see you are getting on top of it, or at least have a good way forward. The CAMS office should be able to give you a steer on who will be CoC, chief scrutineer etc, as it is a national level event they will need to be pretty well qualified. If it will/likely be a local, go talk to him (her). And if not many competitors are used to dealing with CAMS/CAMS classes & regs, push hard for some sort of 'introductory' session(s) - you will need them, either as one-on-ones, or as a group thing.

Good luck, I am sure it will be a great experience. I plan on attending my first Nationals in November too!

[madjak]

It will be interesting to see what cars come across for the event. It's a long way to trailer a car but I would expect the more serious outright competitors and historic cars to come across. I've been to the National Motorkhana Championships a few times and its a big effort to drive the 4000 kms or so to a single event.

We have some very fast open wheelers running at the moment that I think will be hard to beat on their home turf. They have been breaking track records at most events. I'm very close in times to the fastest Lotus in our class but I'm pretty sure I can beat him on the tighter hill climb course. I'm looking forwards to it!

[wade]

[quote/]
Is anyone planning on making the trip over to WA this year? Paul Bower won the class last year.[/quote]

I compete against Paul in the CSCA series.....nice guy and quick, but his car has coilovers on it so I'm not sure how he would've qualified for 2f

If the other mx5's in my series are anything to go by you will struggle to be competitive in an NA/B in 2f against NC's, gt86's and clios :-S