COPs, Oil Coolers, Coolant re-route etc..

[NitroDann]

One word, Intercooler.

[Paulus]

Sorry for no update. They've had the car for 2 days but apparently it will get done tomorrow morning. I've passed on the injector warnings etc

Re: intake. I previously had a total of 180 degrees of bends on my inlet to the turbo. It was sucking cooler air, but I discovered that the bends made the turbo expend more energy. There's alot of fluid dynamics involved in intake design... But I just went with the shortest possible rather than guessing. I also wanted minimum induction noise

My intake temps are the same as ambiant when moving and spool is nominally better (subjective)

[MLR]

One word, Intercooler.

I dig its got a cooler but from my experience the cooler the initial intake air the cooler the air pumped into the motor, a IC can only cool a fixed amount unless you use a aid like a spray or a ice box to help it heat sink.

I had noticeable gains in response when I replaced a crappy air box and installed a sealed box with a external CAI feed.

I find it strange that your intake air temp is the same as ambient seeing though you have your filter behind your radiator and in the engine bay.

Not saying that it isn't, just saying from my experience my under bonnet temps were always been over ambient, well over whilst stopped and still over running, it was like a oven in there after doing sprints.

Measurements were taken with a remote gauge from work, sensor position was passenger side front of bay and the lower intake area of the front bar where the air fed from, from memory the temp difference was fairly significant, like +20 whilst stopped for 1 minute and around +10 when moving.

It was a 25/30 RB motor in a 33, but I feel the physics still should be the same, my N/A NB 5 engine bay temps are above ambient, even the stockish little thing throws out some radiant heat, just stick your hand the top of your filter and compare it to the front bumper.

If the top of the filter is the same temp as the front bumper I will buy you a beer or a feed if we meet up at a event.

V8 Supertaxi's are on at Eastern Creek this weekend, free entry, Ill be the short bald old guy with tattoos in the circa 1993 NISSAN pit shirt.

Disclaimer: I'm not a mechanic or a engineer, I'm just a anal modifier trying to get more for less through research and testing.

[Paulus]

Totally understand the logic, but I've got two mitigating factors.

With FI the air is moving too fast too be heated up materially. Second is the IC, which by passing air through a higher volume reduces temp if you follow the ideal gas law PV = nrt

My sensor is just before the TB. Check the log on page two- MAT is manifold air temp. 29 degrees at 12.5PSI.

If I was in traffic however, I may see some heat soak with low cfms through the IC.

[NitroDann]

Ten degrees more at the intake only ends up being a degree or less after the intercooler. The greater temperature only serves to increase the efficiency of the intercooler because of the greater delta-T (difference in temperature).
1 single degree isn't as important as having minimum intake restriction which is extraordinarily important for a turbocharger.

Dann

[MLR]

Ten degrees more at the intake only ends up being a degree or less after the intercooler. The greater temperature only serves to increase the efficiency of the intercooler because of the greater delta-T (difference in temperature).
1 single degree isn't as important as having minimum intake restriction which is extraordinarily important for a turbocharger.

Dann

Um OK.

I'm afraid I disagree, from my research and testing its worth doing.

And that's the beauty of the interwebs, everybody has an opinion.

My recommendation to OP is to do some testing and roll with your results.

[Paulus]

Ok so got my dyno results:



My afr was pretty far off toward redline. He increased revlimit to 7400




He said VE decreases toward redline so I could get away with more rpm as he's actually pulling fuel

[Lokiel]

:
Correct me if i'm wrong, but there's a fair amount of marketing at play here.. I don't see all the bells and whistles as absolutely necessary.

Or, am i REALLY lucky?
:

I've just been trolling MT.net and the post from Emilio (949racing), point 2 in particular, is very relevent to the original questions posted:
"... just hitting your power goal for one pull on a dyno costs about 30% of what it really takes to put together a well engineered, daily and track reliable F/I kit regardless of the power goal.

There is a sliding scale of cost vs whp vs duty cycle. Lemme 'splain

1. Cost. Directly related to power goal but also modified by duty cycle

2. DC. In race car, aircraft and marine applications, many parts are "timed out". That is, the specific amount of time they see is recorded. Parts replaced when they reach a certain time limit. For our HPDE and race cars, we assume full race pace. For a street car, 100 hrs is maybe 6 months of driving and one set of front pads. For a racecar, that's maybe 2 years on track and probably 7 sets of pads. How does this relate to trubos? A race car will see full power at least 50% of the track with a good driver. Some tracks that goes up to nearly 85%. A newb driver might only be 25%. So 3hrs on track for a weekend might be over 2 hrs at full throttle for the experienced driver. I street car might take years to get that much time at WOT/high rpm. Add to that the much greater heat soak of the track car and you get an idea of how much tougher on a car it is. So even if you don't do track days, the time at high rpm/WOT varies widely even for street and autocross cars. That is duty cycle and must be factored in to any cost vs whp calculation. There is no magic algorithm but if one of the Miata vendors with experience on track tells you $15k after interviewing you for a few minutes, believe it.

3. WHP. There is an ancient catch phrase in the automotive aftermarket. "Speed costs money, how fast do you want to go?". Assuming you are a credit card mechanic, meaning you leave the fabrication, tuning and engineering to a pro but do your own oil changes and simple bolt ons, here's my rough estimates on the power part. This is not including stuff like brakes, wheels, roll bar, etc. Supporting drivetrain mods would be oil cooler, radaiator, reroute, clutch, transmission, forged engine internals, crank damper, custom exhaust, engine management, race gas, etc.

Broken down into a few segments:

NA8/NB <190whp
<$5k for just the power making bits
<$3k drivetrain and other mods to make engine bombproof on track

NA8/NB <250whp
<$7k for just the power making bits
<$4k drivetrain and other mods to make engine bombproof on track

NA8/NB 250-320whp
<$7k for just the power making bits
<$8k drivetrain and other mods to make engine bombproof on track

NA8/NB 320-440whp
<$9k for just the power making bits
<$16k drivetrain and other mods to make engine bombproof on track

Resources
If you can fabricate, tune and are OK utilizing used parts, these can all be done for a fraction of these estimated costs. Of every 50 DIY'ers that attempts a high hp turbo track Miata, I'd say 48 fail. Some with flames and projectile parts vomiting. Not impossible, just usually requires someone with an long history around high performance cars, engineering background and endless patience. Bob Bundy, H-F and a few others here are prime example of the type of outlier that actually makes 350whp work for crazy long duty cyles. Don't ask them how many hours or $ they have into their cars..

So figure out:
Duty Cycle: How it's gonna be used at full power.
Cost: How much you are realistically willing to spend over the next year or to on power adder & supporting mods
WHP: I'll give you a hint, this number is usually the result of first two variables, not an input. IOW, your budget, usage and resources should dictate what power you end up with, not the other way around."

See http://www.miataturbo.net/prefabbed-turbo-kits-3/true-cost-solid-kit-80438/ for the original thread - it is MT.net so the thread does get hijacked with trolling and vendor bashing biut there are some good nuggets in there.

[Magpie]

The 137kw value is the same as my Natural Aspirated build... I reckon on E85 I'll get 150kw.